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Author Topic: Gone to the dogs  (Read 2894 times)
horlock07


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« Reply #30 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 10:52:25 »

Just read a very interesting article from a page called www.Twohundredpercent.net  Entitled Torquay United: Going to the Dogs?  Tells you all you need to know about the Swindon speedway and greyhound track owners!

I couldn't find the Torquay piece sadly, however I read the Morecambe piece on their and if the Torquay piece is as accurate I would read it with a piece of salt, not saying its deliberately incorrect but some basic fact checking would probably be useful.
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pauld


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« Reply #31 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 10:57:43 »

The enforcement of matters held in legal agreements (s.106 I suspect) appended to planning permissions is mainly a matter for the Councils legal services (the old fashioned Borough Solicitor), advised where appropriate by the Enforcement Officer and the ultimate decision to take action lies with the elected members.

The 'Planning Officers' cannot do anything without their overlords say so!
They can pick up a phone. There's plenty of steps they can take short of legal enforcement action. They showed more interest in enabling the developers than helping residents, which they clearly did not regard as being part of their job.
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horlock07


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« Reply #32 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 11:11:54 »

They can pick up a phone. There's plenty of steps they can take short of legal enforcement action. They showed more interest in enabling the developers than helping residents, which they clearly did not regard as being part of their job.

Obviously I bow down to your considerably greater experience of the operations of local authority planning departments and intimate knowledge of exactly whether the planners have picked up the phone, sadly I wasn't there to witness.....

Oh and this is not me making any excuses for SBC, from my professional experience they are one of the most awkward planning departments to deal with in the Country.
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« Reply #33 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 11:14:51 »

I couldn't find the Torquay piece sadly, however I read the Morecambe piece on their and if the Torquay piece is as accurate I would read it with a piece of salt, not saying its deliberately incorrect but some basic fact checking would probably be useful.


The Morecambe piece was a guest piece written by someone else by the looks of things. The stuff on there is normally very good.
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pauld


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« Reply #34 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 11:24:51 »

Obviously I bow down to your considerably greater experience of the operations of local authority planning departments and intimate knowledge of exactly whether the planners have picked up the phone, sadly I wasn't there to witness.....
No need for sarcasm. As you say you weren't there to witness, I was and they repeatedly directly refused to help. They were lazy, incompetent and often deliberately obstructive to even the simplest of enquiries.
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horlock07


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« Reply #35 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 13:25:13 »

No need for sarcasm.

Apologies, probably the weary result of dealing with Nimby's for nearly 20 years.  Wink
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pauld


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« Reply #36 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 13:28:45 »

Apologies, probably the weary result of dealing with Nimby's for nearly 20 years.  Wink
Ha ha, probably much the same way the aresholes at SBC felt about me and my neighbours I guess Smiley
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horlock07


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« Reply #37 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 15:41:16 »

Ha ha, probably much the same way the aresholes at SBC felt about me and my neighbours I guess Smiley

If your postings on here are anything to go by, undoubtedly so Wink

FWIW I am not saying that all planning officers are great, there are some horrors out there and my experience of SBC to date has not been great however there is often a lot more to their position than meets the eye, especially on larger schemes where senior officers or elected members may have had a word and whereby the Council as a whole has a position which the planners have been told to adhere to.

Its a lot duller and less corrupt than many like to think, apart from 1 high profile Council in the north west where cronyism is rife (for instance I have sat in a meeting and our Client was told (with us in the room) that if he sacked his project team and used this other company - who mysteriously do all the work in said area, he would have much better chance of getting permission) and I suspect some skeletons will start falling out of cupboards in the next 6 months or so I have never been aware of anything blatant in too bloody long doing this job!

Going back to the original topic of the thread, I like dawgs.
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pauld


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« Reply #38 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 15:45:12 »

FWIW I am not saying that all planning officers are great, there are some horrors out there and my experience of SBC to date has not been great however there is often a lot more to their position than meets the eye, especially on larger schemes where senior officers or elected members may have had a word and whereby the Council as a whole has a position which the planners have been told to adhere to.
Oh, I'm sure you're right and I'm sure in the grand scheme of things their hands were tied, but this was on simple shit where all it would really have taken is a small amount of:
a) competence
b) giving a shit
c) being able to differentiate between "facts" and "lies I told you a while ago that I'd forgotten about and rather hoped you had"
to have made residents' lives considerably easier at little or no cost to either the council or developers. Sadly both a), b)  and c) were demonstrably lacking.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #39 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 16:45:09 »

Its a lot duller and less corrupt than many like to think.

 Takes me back to the halcyon days of T Dan Smith in Geordieland.  Smith was a a character who probably thought he was doing well by the working classes of the North East by doing very well for himself.

He dealt with the corrupt architect John Poulson who sorted the planners, so the north east ended up with all sorts of hideous buildings including the notorious Byker Wall.

Poulson and Dan Smith both ended up at HMP..... but the Tory Home Secretary , one time chancellor and leadership candidate Reggie Maudling, who invested heavily in Poulson's companies...and of course had nothing to gain from their corruption, just had to resign.

Amazingly, Thatcher could bring back Maudling as Foreign Secretary, until she sacked him. Nothing has changed much now... Tory politicians will always try to do their best by their business friends, attempting to bend the law or change it, as they'll have substantial interests themselves in the companies concerned.

The Byker estate had been traditional terraced houses, much like in Swindon the Queenstown area, bulldozed on the whim of planners, politicians and architects and replaced with something hideous.

The Byker Wall became a listed building in 2007........ I don't suppose those doing so ever lived there.

Incidentally... Bovis were one of the companies implicated in the corruption, yet seemingly stayed unscathed enough to recently get a hefty fine as their new builds are inconveniently falling down.
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horlock07


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« Reply #40 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 17:34:56 »

Takes me back to the halcyon days of T Dan Smith in Geordieland.  Smith was a a character who probably thought he was doing well by the working classes of the North East by doing very well for himself.

He dealt with the corrupt architect John Poulson who sorted the planners, so the north east ended up with all sorts of hideous buildings including the notorious Byker Wall.

Poulson and Dan Smith both ended up at HMP..... but the Tory Home Secretary , one time chancellor and leadership candidate Reggie Maudling, who invested heavily in Poulson's companies...and of course had nothing to gain from their corruption, just had to resign.

Amazingly, Thatcher could bring back Maudling as Foreign Secretary, until she sacked him. Nothing has changed much now... Tory politicians will always try to do their best by their business friends, attempting to bend the law or change it, as they'll have substantial interests themselves in the companies concerned.

The Byker estate had been traditional terraced houses, much like in Swindon the Queenstown area, bulldozed on the whim of planners, politicians and architects and replaced with something hideous.

The Byker Wall became a listed building in 2007........ I don't suppose those doing so ever lived there.

Incidentally... Bovis were one of the companies implicated in the corruption, yet seemingly stayed unscathed enough to recently get a hefty fine as their new builds are inconveniently falling down.

Having lived and studied in Newcastle for 5 years and within a stones throw (if I were Goldie Sayers) of Byker for 3 years lets not re-write history too much to shoe horn in an anti-Tory point.

T. Dan Smith's (I think you missed the bit noting that he was a Labour politician leading a Labour administration who mysteriously gave over 50% of their corporation painting contracts to Mr Smiths painting company) main legacy on Newcastle is the driving of various main roads through the middle of the town, and also levels being all over the place due to the aspiration for 'streets in the sky', likewise another close ally of Poulson was Andrew Cunningham who was also a Labour politician and Union man and also did time for the bribery scandal which enveloped Smith and Poulson.

Not sure why Poulson would have had any need to sort the planners as Smith was Leader of the Council and had a close ally in Wilfred Burns the Chief Planner and between them they came up with the Brasillia of the north scheme for Newcastle.

Poulson was indeed jailed as were the Labour politicians Smith and Cunningham, I don't know much about Maudling (nothing in fact until I googled him just) although Maggie could not have made him FS as he died in Feb 1979 before she became PM, however despite his direct link to Poulson he didn't end up in nick, which does seem odd - likewise another Labour MP Albert Roberts for whom Poulson designed a House FoC seemed to get away with little censure.

The Byker Wall (which is by Ralph Erskine and nothing to do with Poulson - not even sure if Smith had anything to do with it, I supect only its early concept if anything) is a question of taste - not really my cup of tea, but if you are a scholar of such architecture its apparently a gem, yes it replaced terraced housing but again lets remove the rose tinted specs its terraced housing that had been condemned as early as the 50's but not demolished - so not really the whim of anyone - possibly the Public Health Inspector? In terms of its merit I suspect its something of a marmite building, I recall when we studied it in the 90's a number of residents and architectural historians suggested that it should be listed, if you visit the site its strange plan form and orientation makes a lot more sense than it appears in photo's?

Cannot comment on Bovis, however all the sorry case really reveals is that politicians of all colours are happy to get their noses in the trough and often architecture does not age well?

I knew those years studying planning and architecture history would come in useful one day, in those fields Poulson, Smith and Byker are the key case studies we all had to learn!  Wink
« Last Edit: Monday, March 13, 2017, 17:36:38 by horlock07 » Logged
Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #41 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 17:55:26 »

 Yes Smith was Labour as suggested by the thought that he may have been doing some good for the working classes of Newcastle, as well as himself.

 Byker was part of the whole scheme driven by Smith with Poulson's influence.

 Maudling should have read Shadow Foreign Secretary....nevertheless amazing that a disgraced politician should have still been kicking around the front benches.

 At least with the more recent likes of Jonathan Aitken, the Tories only used him in consultancy roles when he came out of the slammer.
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horlock07


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« Reply #42 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 18:04:50 »

Yes Smith was Labour as suggested by the thought that he may have been doing some good for the working classes of Newcastle, as well as himself.


That's a hell of a smear, are you suggesting that the Tories do not do good for the working classes, as Mrs May keeps telling us they are the party of the Just About Managing.

Byker was part of the whole scheme driven by Smith with Poulson's influence.


I recall that Smith actually wanted to rehabilitate and modernise terraces to keep communities together and the Tory government of the day put the brakes on that, hence why his aspiration to retain the strength of communities (possibly due to his being a Wallsend lad) led to estates such as Byker. I actually think you are doing Smith a disservice Poulson had nowt to do with Byker.

Maudling should have read Shadow Foreign Secretary....nevertheless amazing that a disgraced politician should have still been kicking around the front benches.

 At least with the more recent likes of Jonathan Aitken, the Tories only used him in consultancy roles when he came out of the slammer.

Can I present exhibit A, Dr Liam Fox, resigned in disgrace and now a high ranking cabinet minister, most recently seen on TV yesterday sat in front of a massive screen containing a tweet from his personal account and trying to claim that the Guardian had sent or made up said tweet.... I know a lot of people don't have much time for Thatcher with her tarnished (in some cases without evidence) legacy, however I suggest the way Mrs May is going she is potentially going to eclipse Thatcher.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #43 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 18:33:49 »

 All fair points.

I'll pick up on the question of taste mentioned in the previous post re Byker. I lived for some years in Pompey, which had the notorious Tricorn Centre...for some a classic example of le Corbousier style, modernist Brutalism.

 I literally couldn't bring myself to set foot in the place.... some tried to get it listed but happily it was knocked down in 2004.

 I guess, I have a tendency to see something so gross and assume it represents corruption, in the way that a Salisbury cathedral seems to represent a higher purpose. But yes it's a matter of taste. 

I like the work of Jonathan Meades on such subjects as Brutalism, don't necessarily agree but always thought provoking.
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« Reply #44 on: Monday, March 13, 2017, 20:27:59 »

I couldn't find the Torquay piece sadly, however I read the Morecambe piece on their and if the Torquay piece is as accurate I would read it with a piece of salt, not saying its deliberately incorrect but some basic fact checking would probably be useful.

www.Twohundredpercent.net/Torquay-United-Going-dogs/
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