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inept and tiresome

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« on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 14:56:11 »

Got to disclose your name to a British Police Officer when asked?
I said you have too a friend says not?
Is there any legal beagles out their put an end to our argument?
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garethgillman

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« Reply #1 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 15:03:41 »

Legally no you don't unless they have a reason for it e.g. you are suspected of being involved in a crime and at that time you can still refuse until you have actually been arrested which then you have to give your name (if you don't then you can be charged with impeding an officer in an investigation).

BUT morally, why would you refuse if you have done nothing wrong? It will put the officer on edge thinking you have something to hide, unfortunately some people have this ideaology that the police are corrupt and if you give your name to them then they will find something to charge you with but if you haven't done anything wrong then they can't.
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inept and tiresome

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« Reply #2 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 15:38:29 »

This is all about the Bristol guy who was tasered (sp) after refusing his name and it escalated into a ruckus. Offering my name wouldn't be a problem for me but then I don't carry baggage.
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ghanimah

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« Reply #3 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 16:21:38 »

Got to disclose your name to a British Police Officer when asked?
I said you have too a friend says not?
Is there any legal beagles out their put an end to our argument?

No, that is always the issue with Section 60, they have no legal powers but often use search powers to find out by taking your wallet, card details etc.
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"We perform the duties of freemen; we must have the privileges of freemen ..."
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Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #4 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 19:04:58 »

BUT morally, why would you refuse if you have done nothing wrong? It will put the officer on edge thinking you have something to hide, unfortunately some people have this ideaology that the police are corrupt and if you give your name to them then they will find something to charge you with but if you haven't done anything wrong then they can't.
Ha ha ha ha. There speaks the voice of sheltered privilege.
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garethgillman

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« Reply #5 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 19:15:18 »

Ha ha ha ha. There speaks the voice of sheltered privilege.

Definitely not sheltered and have been in trouble with the police but every time I have been dealt with, it was with respect everytime.

I have brothers who have had a few more dealings with the police and they are the same even though the police could have easily been a lot worse with them (one got caught with Class A at a festival).

I live in the Cotswolds so don't get involved with the town or city based police officers, if I get stopped by the police I am respectful and get the same back. I got pulled over after leaving a festival (where drinking and drug taking was common), I was asked if I had taken anything, I was asked to provide details for my insurance and was breathalysed..... within 3 minutes I was back on my way with no issues.

The only time people seem to get a hard time from police is when they give them a hard time, if an officer asks for your name, give them it, if they want to search you, let them. Ok it might infringe your rights but if you refuse to do these then you automatically get seen as someone who has something to hide, if you're not doing anything wrong then you have no reason to not be respectful to an officer and give the details they require.

I get it some officers are bad, corrupt and treat people like shit but they are very few and far between, if you get stopped, ask what it's for and dialogue with them.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #6 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 19:45:20 »

 The last time I had dealings with OB, was about 4 years ago. The fella was a complete cock, now bear in mind I'm an old bugger, I was doing nowt other than being on the street late at night with a bird, who wanted some physical attention.  This seemed to upset matey boy who perhaps thought I was offending public morals. So he felt he could intrude,  I refused to give him my name as is my right, and pointed out that generally I was an upstanding citizen of long standing with an unblemished record on the side of law and order, so maybe he'd be better off doing his crime fighting elsewhere.

He explained as far as OB was concerned there was no such thing as being on the side of law and order...to them all people are treated the same....so I asked, as criminals?

This upset him, so he started to shove me down the street in an aggressive fashion...I pointed out this was quite unnecessary due to my age, and that the only reason for me being close up to his face was because of age related hearing problems. As luck would have it someone I knew was passing, so I asked them to witness what was going on, which they were happy to do.  At which point, he got back in the car and fucked off  Smiley

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Wobbly Bob

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« Reply #7 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 20:20:05 »

Reminds me of this.

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Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
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RedRag

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« Reply #8 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 21:21:01 »

The only time people seem to get a hard time from police is when they give them a hard time, if an officer asks for your name, give them it, if they want to search you, let them. Ok it might infringe your rights but if you refuse to do these then you automatically get seen as someone who has something to hide, if you're not doing anything wrong then you have no reason to not be respectful to an officer and give the details they require.

Respect is a two way street.  The police are there to uphold the law.   

How can exercising a right be giving them a hard time?  If I (as a member of the public) inflicted that degree of injury on a policeman because I felt I was receiving a hard time, I would fear the consequences. 

Like you I guess, I am white  and live in a chocolate box part of the country and (purely coincidentally) never have any unpleasant encounters with the police in that environment. 

It is telling that when the police realised they had been filmed and the status of the dreadlocked victim that they withdrew their charges.
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #9 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 21:39:20 »

I came across a prize one 18 months ago. Coming back from a one day folk festival with wife and 3 kids in my Mondeo I was driving down the a419. No cars any where until a car came from nowhere right up behind me and started tailgating me. I then spend up and slowed down it still tailgated me. I was getting quite worried as my family  are in the car. He then put on his blue flashy thing and pulled me. I wound down the window and he said he could smell cannabis. We all started laughing. He then said he could smell drink. He could as my wife and eldest had a few glasses of wine. He then told me my driving was erratic. I told him I was worried as some arsehole was tailgating me and that I now knew the arsehole was him. He said he needed to read my number plate. I said not for 5 miles he didn't. I then was brearhylised. Zero reading. He then checked for tax insurance etc and gave the car a once over. He then asked where I'd been and where I was going. During this another cop car arrived. I was then allowed to drive home to have another cop car sat opposite my drive waiting for me. He didn't like it when I told him he'd pulled over the most boring cunt he'd ever pulled over. Folk festival, sober, Mondeo, wife and kids, car all legal etc. This cop was a grade a cunt.
« Last Edit: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 21:41:51 by chalkies_shorts » Logged
woolster

« Reply #10 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 21:41:58 »

Respect is a two way street.  The police are there to uphold the law.   

How can exercising a right be giving them a hard time?  If I (as a member of the public) inflicted that degree of injury on a policeman because I felt I was receiving a hard time, I would fear the consequences. 

Like you I guess, I am white  and live in a chocolate box part of the country and (purely coincidentally) never have any unpleasant encounters with the police in that environment. 

It is telling that when the police realised they had been filmed and the status of the dreadlocked victim that they withdrew their charges.
he didn't have an unpleasant encounter with the police, they asked him his name simple as that,the police were trying to apprehend someone, just trying to do there job which is fucking hard with society the way it is, he wasn't prepared to make life easy and tell them his name then it started to get heated, IMO the geezer had a problem with the police and chose to make it complicated
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #11 on: Saturday, January 21, 2017, 23:21:36 »

IMO the geezer had a problem with the police and chose to make it complicated
He voluntarily works with the police to act as a liaison between them and the local community. Suggests that he doesn't generally have a problem with the police. But I bet he will in the future, having been tasered for absolutely no reason. Won't help the coppers' efforts to persuade the local community they are reasonable decent people working to help the community and not a hostile force either.
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johnritsons toupe

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« Reply #12 on: Sunday, January 22, 2017, 00:53:33 »

Got to disclose your name to a British Police Officer when asked?
I said you have too a friend says not?
Is there any legal beagles out their put an end to our argument?

Simple answer is NO. You don't HAVE to give your name to OB unless you're suspected of a crime.

Let me clarify; It's not illegal to refuse to give your name. If they suspect strongly that you've committed a crime, do you honestly think that they're going to let you go just because you gave them your name?

The easy way to handle yourself in a situation like the black guy in Bristol was facing is to ask them if you're under arrest. If the answer is no, then you're free to walk away.

If they want to question you, they'll arrest you anyway - specially if you start to walk away - regardless of whether or not you give them your name or show them your ID, so why make life easy on them?

And before anyone else comes up with the 'if you haven't done anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about' routine, think again. OB are not your friends. They're looking to nick you, not eliminate you from their enquiries, and if you're unlucky enough to get their attention, treat them and the situation respectfully, but be firm.

They're not law makers or enforcers, despite what some of them think.

They police us with the consent of the governed - which is us. End of. They don't like smart arses reminding of that fact, but there you go.

The Bristol guy made the mistake of getting shitty with them, which I don't blame him for as they ended up harrassing him, and he was unfortunate to come across a female who seemed to panic when he got lairy (biggest mistake of her career, because she'll be thrown out of the force for what she did with the taser).

What happened to him proves my point though: They were obviously going to make an arrest anyway, and once he took the stance that he wasn't going to give him his name he should have kept calm. He was completely in the right legally, but he should have remained in control and talked to them respectfully.

I'd always advocate speaking to them confidently and respecfully as most of them are decent people. If you come across an arsehole, a rookie or a pair of good cop-bad cops, just keep calm and stand your ground, respectfully.

I believe the exception to this is if you're stopped in a motor vehicle, Then you have to tell them who you are by law.

I've tried this once. As it happens, the copper I spoke to seemed a really decent guy and almost looked hurt that I didn't give my name. He went to great legnths to reassure me, but I was polite and firm, and just told him that I'd just rather not give him my name unless he suspected me of committing a crime. He asked me what he should call me if he didn't have my name, and I just said SIR - the same as I'm calling you, sir.

In the end, he said I wasn't under attest and he didn't suspect me of committing an offence. We shook hands and I was off on my way.
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Don Rogers Sock

« Reply #13 on: Monday, January 23, 2017, 08:59:25 »

Let's be honest here, i have in the past had a few runnings with the police so people would assume i would be anti police.

The one thing that really fucks me off is when people constantly just be awkward with them. Why not give your fucking name when asked?
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horlock07

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« Reply #14 on: Monday, January 23, 2017, 10:14:53 »


The Bristol guy made the mistake of getting shitty with them, which I don't blame him for as they ended up harrassing him, and he was unfortunate to come across a female who seemed to panic when he got lairy (biggest mistake of her career, because she'll be thrown out of the force for what she did with the taser).


One thing that caught my eye (so to speak), is it normal practice to taser people in the face, no idea but I can imagine that getting a load of volts through your eye is going to fuck your vision up long term is it necessary to do it there?

From my limited experience of dealing with the police a lot of officers have a fairly limited understanding of the complexity of the law and interpret it essentially as being I am a policeman, I know best and you will do what you are told!
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