Lee Power siphoning off funds

[Ells]

Where did I say that?

What's the alternative to being in it for the money? And as a secondary question, how common do you think that is in football?

[random_five]

What's the alternative to being in it for the money? And as a secondary question, how common do you think that is in football?

We have ended up with a greedy, incompetent, bloated chancer who insists on a model that makes him some cash but dooms the football club to failure.. and he openly admits that's fine, as long as he makes his money and retreats to his tax haven and persists with a fucking toddler for a manager.

But you're OK with that.

[johnritsons toupe]

Reg will remember an ex STFC chairman by the name of Ray Hardman. This was back in the 1990's.

Hardman was the first Chairman of the club ever to pay himself a wage. Previous to him, everyone had done the job as an extra to their duties as an investor / director.

Back then, Directors of the clubs board used to stump up £100,00 or so to get a seat in the boardroom. That's how the likes of Peter Godwin, Cliff Puffit and Mike Spearman got involved.

Hardman claiming wages for doing a job that all before him had done on a voluntary basis was anathema at the time.

As far as I can tell, Power is the first person to openly get paid for running the club in the position of Chairman since Mr Hardman was in town.

For those of you that are wary of supporters running the club, as in the Trust model, let me ask a question; Why does is it OK for someone like Power to extract huge sums of player profits and to trouser the cash for himself, yet it's somehow not acceptable for supporters to run the show and to reinvest those same profits for the good of the club that we all support?

I agree with the comment about the trust of 10 years ago would have been all over Power by now. They were motivated by the presence of a toxic regime in Diamandis, Bob Holt, Mark Devlin, Mark Sulivan and Sandra Gray and they were proved right. They were villified in the extreme for their stance at the time and there were many naysayers such as the supporters club who were quick to spout off in the press in defence of the board, but the trust stood their ground and brought about change when Fitton came in.

A decade down the line, don't make the mistake of thinking that the trust are stupid or that they are just sitting on their hands.

[Ells]

We have ended up with a greedy, incompetent, bloated chancer who insists on a model that makes him some cash but dooms the football club to failure.. and he openly admits that's fine, as long as he makes his money and retreats to his tax haven and persists with a fucking toddler for a manager.

But you're OK with that.

You didn't answer my question at all and just ranted. There are no facts in what you said whatsoever.

[Kinky Tom]

For those of you that are wary of supporters running the club, as in the Trust model, let me ask a question; Why does is it OK for someone like Power to extract huge sums of player profits and to trouser the cash for himself, yet it's somehow not acceptable for supporters to run the show and to reinvest those same profits for the good of the club that we all support?

And where would a fan owned club get the money that Power spent on the players that have been sold on in the first place?

We're not Barcelona, we don't have millions of fans world wide to pay big transfer fees.

[RobertT]

Now, I might be going nuts but weren't some abbreviated accounts produced recently?  Showed a decent financial loss and pretty much confirmed most of the numbers people had rumored around debts etc.  It also showed progress from a previous higher loss, and would have covered up until May 2015 I think.
Essentially it backed up the claims of investing around £4m to cover running costs initially, and then the transfer money would have come in post these accounts to begin paying down the loans.  It is highly unlikely all the debt has been paid back as yet, so Power will still have some loans owed by the football club and I would imagine some of our annual running costs now include paying him back.
In relation to previous owners/directors - Hardman was vilified for running the club close to break even (accounts at the time show we probably even made a profit or two) because it meant selling players like Shearer/Kerslake (and other directors in the years leading up to 93/94).  That regime got us to the Premier League, so we should know better than to expect any Board to get a clear run!
The 2007 saga was as a result of Diamandis, not anyone else.  Nobody could ever argue that Wills' family didn't put money into the club and keep losing it.  The issue here was a self interest causing a combination of personal greed and reckless incompetence.  They were, in combination, putting the very existence of the club at risk and steadfastly refusing to give it up, until the squeeze came on.  Whether Power is good or bad for the club, he is not creating a model right now that immediately puts at that risk.  I also think he'd be very willing to sell-up if someone paid him off - so essentially, this time around we are in a put up or shut scenario.  I am surprised that the Trust hasn't been more pro-active in looking to grease another investor or raise funds themselves directly towards that aim, publicly.  They wouldn't need that to be at odds with Power, they can easily keep him happy by saying it is a long term goal with a plan to get him his cash.

[johnritsons toupe]

And where would a fan owned club get the money that Power spent on the players that have been sold on in the first place?

We're not Barcelona, we don't have millions of fans world wide to pay big transfer fees.

I don't have all the answers Tom, but how can we be sure if, or what, Power paid for any of the players he sold on and pocketed the money for?

I understand that people are wary of change, but I think most of us know Power isn't the long term solution that the club needs.

If we're to believe anything he's said, one thing he's achieved in the time he's been here is to get the books balanced and the club paying it's own way on the turnover it generates, so he's not all bad.

On that basis, the prospects for the future if it were to be run by an amalgamation of the trust and business people based in the town would be excellent as any sold player profits would purely enhance the business, not an individuals bank balance.

Also, the PR and bad feeling around the town couldn't get much worse, ditto the quality of the football and poor results, so I can't see much of an argument against Power leaving and handing the club over to the trust.

If they took over they may well make mistakes, but at least they'd be mistakes made with the right intentions and they'd be completely accountable to the rest of us and be open to scrutiny, which would be better than the closed shop and profit drain that we currently have.

Can someone please give me a credible counter argument?

[RobertT]

The price tag?  Unlike the last time in 2005-2007, the club has a stable balance sheet, so he is unlikely to just let the business go, and he'll still have his own debts to pay, plus a secured debt from Black of at least £2m on the sale of the club.

[Panda Paws]

No I don't know very well what you mean.

This is football. It's our football club. Not a fucking village pub.

Lee Power has no links to Swindon whatsoever. He does not care about the club. He doesn't care about the fans (other than lamenting the fact that since he appointed a giant fucking baby as manager there aren't enough of us, which effects his income) He doesn't care about the community. He doesn't care about the local paper that has served the club for 100 years. He doesn't care about the ground. He doesn't care about our history. He doesn't care about beating our rivals. He doesn't care about us arguing with our own fans about all of this shit. He doesn't care about fucking anything to do with this club other than the cash.

He dangled the sustainability carrot because he knew we'd all buy it. It's utter fucking bollocks.

Two small points here - It's not out club, and hasn't been for a long time before Power rocked up.

Also, the local paper? Owned by Gannett. American, revenue of c. $2.9billion. Not printed in Swindon. Not subbed in Swindon. And a pile of shite. If I was in charge of the club I'd tell them to piss off too (and give access to a community rag/website of some sort).

The rest I sort of think is true, but true of most owners in the FL.

[Reg Smeeton]

 Historically as JRT pointed out Directors would stump up some cash to get on the Board.....Carson as he never tired of telling us paid 400K, to become Chairman.

 The Directors would then secure a bank loan against their own assets, as the club had none, once the small property portfolio had been sold off.  When the bank manager came calling, the gaffer got on the phone to sell someone, to keep them at bay....which is why the March deadline was feared, you could pretty much guarantee a sale to cover summer costs.

 However the turn of the century crash, which saw us in admin and selling the lawnmower etc, meant banking facilities were lost, and the club having to turn to owners/directors for loans to keep running.  SSW, through Lady Wills was forthcoming in that department, as was Andrew Black. They both accepted eventually that they'd have to write off money, even though I'm sure they'd have preferred to be recompensed for their outlays.

Power has said he wants to make money from his guarantees, and we must assume he's paid himself back something from the outgoing transfer fees, in much the same way as that money would have paid off the banks in the past. In the past, a sale of a Don Rogers for 150K, would see a few bob of it invested in a Tommy Jenkins as a replacement, in the same way as a JAF would see some invested back in a Lord Lucan.   So Power, is seemingly not doing too much different....he's invested in a Luke Norris to replace Ajose....and punted on Vigs.

There's also the training ground thing to consider. 

Power because of his history, persona and modus operandi was always going to get it, once the football side went tits up....it was ever thus.

[Flashheart]

I'm actually quite please he told the adver to fuck off. It's a disgraceful rag, not far behind the likes of the Sun and the Daily Mail. Full of sensationalist headlines and unethical reporting to help sell papers, and the STFC coverage is only a small part of it.

They don't serve STFC or the town, they serve themselves. Fuck them.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

The last line of Reg's post about Power's history is what worries most - CR8 morphing into CR8(UK) but not before siphoning off the contracts and then folding the original company along with 'funds' disappearing into Welpdale Assets.

Then the Great Northern Hotel in Peterborough left a nasty taste - plus 13 of his 19 companies being folded.

It's this history that makes it uneasy when thinking he wont leave STFC in a similar way.

[horlock07]

I don't have all the answers Tom, but how can we be sure if, or what, Power paid for any of the players he sold on and pocketed the money for?

That runs both ways though doesn't it, do we know of what fees were received, what sell on fees had to be settled, equally is there evidence that he has pocketed the money or has it just been used to repay loans or wider debts?

I understand that people are wary of change, but I think most of us know Power isn't the long term solution that the club needs.

If we're to believe anything he's said, one thing he's achieved in the time he's been here is to get the books balanced and the club paying it's own way on the turnover it generates, so he's not all bad.

Quite possibly so, but he is the only show in town at the moment unless someone wants to find £6m to buy him out, even if he had shown any inclination of selling?

On that basis, the prospects for the future if it were to be run by an amalgamation of the trust and business people based in the town would be excellent as any sold player profits would purely enhance the business, not an individuals bank balance.

Couple of things here, I have plenty of time for the Trust but have they ever shown that they have enough financial backing or expertise to run the club, there are examples where fan ownership has gone wonderfully but also where it has gone dreadfully? I am sure if there were all these business people willing to net involved we would have heard from them by now, as per my earlier comment there is the small matter of c.£6m to find and also working capital to actually run the club (again no disrespect to the Trust but the Help Raise the Roof initiative has now raised around c.£11k in 2? years, just shows how hard it is to raise funds), especially as possibly finding decent players for peanuts would get even harder without the contacts in the game Power has?

Also, the PR and bad feeling around the town couldn't get much worse, ditto the quality of the football and poor results, so I can't see much of an argument against Power leaving and handing the club over to the trust.

The PR is crap, but is it really the be all and end all or just a handy stick?

Whilst the club has very few assets, can you really see or expect Power 'handing it over' without at the very least getting all the cash he has put in back, plus there is the spectre of Andrew Black still hovering in the distance, as I have said time and time again Swindon is a club with very few assets but a hell of a lot of liabilities, I cannot see Trust board members wanting to take on those liabilities without a fair few safety nets in place.

If they took over they may well make mistakes, but at least they'd be mistakes made with the right intentions and they'd be completely accountable to the rest of us and be open to scrutiny, which would be better than the closed shop and profit drain that we currently have.

Can someone please give me a credible counter argument?

Repeat my point above, what 'fan' would want to take over the liabilities and be 'accountable' to the other fans who have shown themselves unwilling to ever accept hard truths, I can just imagine the fun and game on here if the money got short or a player was sold and not all the return spent on other players, it would be as bad as the non-evidenced stuff that goes around now 'profit drain' for instance what does that actually mean.

Closed shop, if you want a closed shop try Chelsea where, I believe, Abromovich has never spoken to the fans (not sure they have ever even heard his voice), but they are doing well and thus the fans are happy, as I suspect many of the most vociferous here would be also if we weren't rubbish. The problem we have at the moment is we have a crap team, I remain unconvinced that a group of fans and provincial businessmen will alleviate that fundamental issue?

Can someone please give me a credible counter argument?

Credible, probably no more than your original points, I would more say realistic and pragmatic.

Having lived through the Diamandis financial wilderness, the Fitton New Labour Era, the Black financial meltdown, the McCrory Tin Pot Years, the Di Canio Pissing what we don't have up the wall era, and the present Power trying to balance the ship and then stagnating era I really don't have any preference who owns the club as long as they run it as a sustainable business and don't destroy it (feel free to draw your own conclusions where each of the former periods stand in that matrix). No urge for Power to stay, but as he is the only credible show in town at the moment there is little we can do.

I would love to buy the club, plough £100m in to transfers and the same again to the ground, but that's just not credible, but is as credible as many of the arguments being presented on here at the moment.  

[Reg Smeeton]

Two small points here - It's not out club, and hasn't been for a long time before Power rocked up.

Also, the local paper? Owned by Gannett. American, revenue of c. $2.9billion. Not printed in Swindon. Not subbed in Swindon. And a pile of shite. If I was in charge of the club I'd tell them to piss off too (and give access to a community rag/website of some sort).

The rest I sort of think is true, but true of most owners in the FL.

Fans need to think of it as "our" club, if that link is broken, which is increasingly the case today....then you're fucked.

You can get away with it at the top end, where they consider themselves global brands and buying a shirt means you belong to the tribe in Botswana or similar.

At our level though, it's the only thing which keeps the clubs going.  This is Power's biggest mistake....if the garden isn't tended to, then it runs wild.

[horlock07]

Historically as JRT pointed out Directors would stump up some cash to get on the Board.....Carson as he never tired of telling us paid 400K, to become Chairman.

 The Directors would then secure a bank loan against their own assets, as the club had none, once the small property portfolio had been sold off.  When the bank manager came calling, the gaffer got on the phone to sell someone, to keep them at bay....which is why the March deadline was feared, you could pretty much guarantee a sale to cover summer costs.

 However the turn of the century crash, which saw us in admin and selling the lawnmower etc, meant banking facilities were lost, and the club having to turn to owners/directors for loans to keep running.  SSW, through Lady Wills was forthcoming in that department, as was Andrew Black. They both accepted eventually that they'd have to write off money, even though I'm sure they'd have preferred to be recompensed for their outlays.

Power has said he wants to make money from his guarantees, and we must assume he's paid himself back something from the outgoing transfer fees, in much the same way as that money would have paid off the banks in the past. In the past, a sale of a Don Rogers for 150K, would see a few bob of it invested in a Tommy Jenkins as a replacement, in the same way as a JAF would see some invested back in a Lord Lucan.   So Power, is seemingly not doing too much different....he's invested in a Luke Norris to replace Ajose....and punted on Vigs.

There's also the training ground thing to consider.  

Power because of his history, persona and modus operandi was always going to get it, once the football side went tits up....it was ever thus.

Exactly, Power is essentially acting as the clubs banker as the banks will not offer credit facilities to such businesses, it would have been interested to see how the club could have performed with SSW's money but being advised by someone who was credible.

Sadly most ships have sailed with regards to the club, opportunities have been missed and we are where we are, nothing against fan control (its worth a go) but just cannot see a credible manner in which it can be achieved, the chance could have been when Black left, but whilst they could have bought the club for a quid, they would have also got pages of liabilities and had to find the millions Power has put into the place?