EU Referendum

[Peter Venkman]

Farage is currently in Brussels.

Quick, someone, anyone, invoke article 50 and close the borders.

Somebody on Jeremy Vines radio 2 show yesterday said the best thing the country could do was have Boris as PM and Farage as his advisor.

Why the fuck are severely mentally deranged people allowed on a telephone.

[michael]

Complete unanimity in Brussels on the point that if the UK wishes to have access to the Single Market, we have to agree to Freedom of Movement.  It's a point that Cameron, Johnson and, now, Hunt, have all accepted.

So Leavers, which did you vote for?  It's both of these, or neither of them.  They come as a package.

If you thought you were getting Single Market access without Freedom of Movement, you voted on a false prospectus.  You voted for something that was never on offer.

At least we've still taken back control though.

IDS has since said that Leave's promises were actually "a series of possibilities".

They are looking more and more like a series of improbabilities to me.

[RobertT]

Complete unanimity in Brussels on the point that if the UK wishes to have access to the Single Market, we have to agree to Freedom of Movement.  It's a point that Cameron, Johnson and, now, Hunt, have all accepted.

So Leavers, which did you vote for?  It's both of these, or neither of them.  They come as a package.

If you thought you were getting Single Market access without Freedom of Movement, you voted on a false prospectus.  You voted for something that was never on offer.

At least we've still taken back control though.

I think you might be surprised by the answer from most - they would forego membership of the Single market for that control.

Lets not dress up to be something it isn't.  The Single Market has huge benefits for business who wish to trade in the EU, but non membership does not mean you cannot trade with the countries within the EU.  As it happens, even if we fully withdrawl, it will take years before we won't align with the required regulations anyway.  The argument is that any business in the future wishing to trade with the EU can decide themselves to accept the required standards to do so, but the Govt. doesn't have to legislate - so companies who do not trade with the EU can avoid the "red tape".

The Single Market itself is my main issue with peoples view on the EU, they often think it's what the EU is all about.  It's not, it's much more than that.  That confusion is why we had to get out - because those who were anti-EU establishments will have continued to remain just as frustrated.  It was never heading in the direction most people want, no matter how many times we kept repeating the mantra of being able to shape it from within.  We were "put up with" as net contributors and a decent export market.

Whoever gets control of the plan needs to make sure it heeds the message from the voters (no matter how daft we may think they are).

[Reg Smeeton]

Farage is currently in Brussels.

Quick, someone, anyone, invoke article 50 and close the borders.

Farage's speech to the EU Parliament....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/28/meps-boo-nigel-farage-insults-in-european-parliament

[Private Fraser]

Somebody on Jeremy Vines radio 2 show yesterday said the best thing the country could do was have Boris as PM and Farage as his advisor.

Why the fuck are severely mentally deranged people allowed on a telephone.

They have the vote as well, don't ya know?  

[Peter Venkman]

They have the vote as well, don't ya know? 

Shit, no I had forgot that. We're doomed!

[RobertT]

IDS has since said that Leave's promises were actually "a series of possibilities".

They are looking more and more like a series of improbabilities to me.

That's because they were.  All the Leave option gives us is the power to make decisions.  We can carry on as is if the Govt. of the time wants to, just not as members.  Say the Lib Dems win the next election, they'd want to be in the Single Market and open up the borders, there choice.  All the voters did was give the Govt. of the day the mandate to make their own laws in areas where the EU had superseded (like competition policy, VAT etc.)

[chalkies_shorts]

I would happily see us untied to Europe completely other than trading with the them the same way as we would trade with India for example. I don't want us tied to them in any way other than trade deals. I could happily forgo the "mates rates" and introduce tariffs, which would affect them more than us. Its a big wide world out there to trade with.
It is very easy to vote out, accept that a lot of what they said was lies and not be a racist. although I do fit the old male and pale stereotype. My mind was made up in 1978 and it hasn't changed.
This is no different to someone winning a General Election, they now have to deliver and which Government has delivered what they said they would. Its politics. Its sad but its the real world. People lie.
They all lied. Where is Gideon's punishment budget? Where is World War 3. OK, they might be coming but ..........
There is a sizeable element that would take economic hardship etc to say they were right. They cannot accept the majority of voters had a different view so demonise them. The abuse handed out to some leavers has not been good. They are as intolerant as the people they accuse, although the accused may have very valid reasons unconnected to racism etc.

[Reg Smeeton]

Where is Gideon's punishment budget?

Osborne has said he was right, his successor will have to implement this, to stabilise public finanaces.

[Tails]

I would happily see us untied to Europe completely other than trading with the them the same way as we would trade with India for example. I don't want us tied to them in any way other than trade deals. I could happily forgo the "mates rates" and introduce tariffs, which would affect them more than us. Its a big wide world out there to trade with.
It is very easy to vote out, accept that a lot of what they said was lies and not be a racist. although I do fit the old male and pale stereotype. My mind was made up in 1978 and it hasn't changed.
This is no different to someone winning a General Election, they now have to deliver and which Government has delivered what they said they would. Its politics. Its sad but its the real world. People lie.
They all lied. Where is Gideon's punishment budget? Where is World War 3. OK, they might be coming but ..........
There is a sizeable element that would take economic hardship etc to say they were right. They cannot accept the majority of voters had a different view so demonise them. The abuse handed out to some leavers has not been good. They are as intolerant as the people they accuse, although the accused may have very valid reasons unconnected to racism etc.

It's funny you speak about tolerance here, because it is exactly this kind of isolationist, "set in my ways", backwards and out dated attitude that I am intolerant of. I don't mind people having different views, but I do mind ignorance.

[AldbourneRed]

This is no different to someone winning a General Election, they now have to deliver and which Government has delivered what they said they would.

The key difference is that neither of the main parties fully allied themselves behind the Leave campaign and even if they had this wasn't a General Election and so nothing has changed as far as the balance of power across the parties goes.

Cameron stepping down and the upcoming fight to be PM should go some way towards that but until the dust is settled on that the people who said they would deliver, and importantly the people who claimed it was even possible to deliver what Leave promised, are not in a position to do so.

[Reg Smeeton]

  So 40 MP's support Corbyn  , but he will win a leadership contest. 

[chalkies_shorts]

It's funny you speak about tolerance here, because it is exactly this kind of isolationist, "set in my ways", backwards and out dated attitude that I am intolerant of. I don't mind people having different views, but I do mind ignorance.

I want the UK to trade with the world. I'd rather spread the trade around the world rather than concentrate most on a smaller area. I want us to strike our own trade deals. This not only spreads the risk that if Europe crashes we would be ok but the developing world opens up new opportunities. This provides flexibility. I'm not sure how this is isolationist. I'll admit to being set in my ways as are most people. I'm mot sure that looking to the developing world and wanting to not put all your eggs in one basket is backward looking or out of date.
I just think we can do it alone leaving us flexible and not tied to the fortunes of 27 other nations. I couldn't give a shit if we trade with France or Uruguay.  This won't happen overnight and I'm pretty sure things will get worse before they get better. Being a big importer of goods, I'm sure other countries will want to trade with us. For me, thats a short term price worth paying.
I'll agree that it may be a view that is not shared by many on here including yourself but its hardly ignorant. Its different, not ignorant.

[Abrahammer]

  So 40 MP's support Corbyn  , but he will win a leadership contest. 

The leadership contest should have taken from the membership when they put the wrong Milliband in charge.

I'm convinced the British political scene would look very different now had they made the right choice back then

[Reg Smeeton]

The leadership contest should have taken from the membership when they put the wrong Milliband in charge.

I'm convinced the British political scene would look very different now had they made the right choice back then

David's subsequent career has confirmed in spades or should that be spads, that a bullet was well and truly dodged.