New training ground

[horlock07]

Nonetheless, the end effect is that locally SBC rejected Coate and the developers went over their heads to national govt where they were able to get the result they wanted.

Apologies, but for fuck sake!

As per previously you cannot go 'over the Councils head to government', all you can do is appeal to PINS to independently review in accordance with adopted local and national policy, which you and I are equally allowed to do, who then determine, in the case of such a large scheme it would then be called in ('recovered' is the actual term) if appropriate to SoS (Actually a bloke in an office in Birmingham but that's by the by!) who then decides whether they agree with the Inspector or not!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but locally democracy means very little in the development control system, if a proposal is policy compliant (and the public and councillors get ample opportunity to influence policy but tend not to as its either boring or not seen as a vote winner/chance to get your photo in the paper with a placard) it should be approved otherwise its a complete lottery and they system would grind to a halt as no one would develop as the risks would be ridiculous.

If it isn't developers have the right to appeal and should legally win, on large schemes that's why 'evil developers' are often portrayed as the bad guys as Councils often go against (or deliberately misinterpret) their own policies to pander to objectors and/or members, refuse schemes that should be approved which are subsequently approved after the local angle is removed. I can honestly say that in my 20+ years in this awful system I have experienced many cases of anti developer shenanigans from members and officers under their influence.

Applicants can appeal anything and do so, it could be worse, In RoI there are third party rights of appeal and its a NIMBY's paradise.

Apologies for being a grumpy twat about this but I am sick of posters (poster actually) on here trying to shoehorn ill informed bollocks into any planning discussions on here to try and justify/support some political conspiracy theory.

[pauld]

Sorry, but what you've described there sounds exactly like a developer going over the Council's head to national government.
1) Developer puts in planning application
2) Council rejects it
3) Developer appeals to PINS to review
4) Secretary of State decides whether or not to call it in.

How is that not a developer going over the head of the council to national government?

And yes I'm well aware that in the case of Coate, this was precisely what happened:

Councils often go against (or deliberately misinterpret) their own policies to pander to objectors and/or members, refuse schemes that should be approved which are subsequently approved after the local angle is removed. I can honestly say that in my 20+ years in this awful system I have experienced many cases of anti developer shenanigans from members and officers under their influence.

[Reg Smeeton]

Apologies, but for fuck sake!

As per previously you cannot go 'over the Councils head to government',

Call it what you like and disagree all you want... but it amounts to the same.

A similar story in Wroughton recently....  SBC took this one to a public inquiry

But, after developer Hannick Homes appealed the decision, a three-day public inquiry in January resulted in a government planning inspector making a formal recommendation to the Department for Communities and Local Government on the merits of the application. Secretary of State, Sajid Javid, ruled in favour of the developer last month approving the planning application.

There's good money to be made from these decisions.... the fella who benefitted from PaulD's thing was recently in line for a £100 mill bonus payment.... dropped to £75 mill when it was suggested that perhaps a tad ott, given that much of te profits are generated by the Government's Help to Buy scheme

[horlock07]

Call it what you like but and disagree all you want... but it amounts to the same.

A similar story in Wroughton recently....  SBC took this one to a public inquiry

There's good money to be made from these decisions.... the fella who benefitted from PaulD's thing was recently in line for a £100 mill bonus payment.... dropped to £75 mill when it was suggested that perhaps a tad ott, given that much of te profits are generated by the Government's Help to Buy scheme

SBC did not take to Inquiry, PINS would have made the decision regarding route......

Inspector recommended approval and SoS agreed, nowt to do with government.

Next!

[Reg Smeeton]

SBC did not take to Inquiry, PINS would have made the decision regarding route......

Inspector recommended approval and SoS agreed, nowt to do with government.

Next!

SBC's rejection of the application brought about the public inquiry.... yes we get that a planning inspector makes a recommendation, but it still has to be nodded through by a Pickles or Javid, who the last time I looked were in government.

Who appoints your inspector chums?  By that I mean who are they answerable to, at the top of the food chain.... wouldn't be any Government agencies by any chance  

[pauld]

Inspector recommended approval and SoS agreed, nowt to do with government.

How is the Secretary of State, a senior member of the government, "nowt to do with government"?

[RobertT]

I think Horlock is pointing out the the Govt/SoS only ensure that the correct legal process has been followed.  IN this regard, isn't SBC pretty much fucked every time someone approaches for housing, as they've not accounted for enough in the local plan?

So long as the application complies with local planning policy, any rejection based on political desires/local noise will be over turned, which is what happened with Coate.

Unless I am very wrong.

[Reg Smeeton]

I think Horlock is pointing out the the Govt/SoS only ensure that the correct legal process has been followed.  IN this regard, isn't SBC pretty much fucked every time someone approaches for housing, as they've not accounted for enough in the local plan?

So long as the application complies with local planning policy, any rejection based on political desires/local noise will be over turned, which is what happened with Coate.

Unless I am very wrong.

SBC has got plenty of houses in the local plan... probably more than just about anywhere else in the UK.  When developers want to build outside the plan, the ruse is to say SBC are not building them quickly enough, rather than there aren't enough in the plan. So for example the Eastern development is for 8,000 houses... but it isn't happening yet.

[RobertT]

It's not a ruse if SBC can't sort themselves out.

[tans]

The comments from some of the councillors are quite amusing.

The site is on the outskirts of town, hardly going to be an eyesore, i doubt you would even know ot was there

[Reg Smeeton]

It's not a ruse if SBC can't sort themselves out.

SBC will always bend over backwards for a passing multi-national or large developer.... but they are dependent on economic conditions.  Developers are happy to hoard land, if the economy cannot justify building on it at that time;  they'll wait, and look for more suitable sites which maybe are outside the plan.

PaulD's thing; included in the plan eventually passed, was land earmarked for employment purposes near J15. This has been on the market for several years now.... with no takers.  So developer now wants to build more houses

[BambooToTheFuture]

I think Horlock has given up. If anyone is going to know his spicy pickled (no not Eric) onions about planning then I'll respect his word over several others. Unless you'd like to reveal you have a history of council planning, let the man share his correct knowledge.

[horlock07]

SBC's rejection of the application brought about the public inquiry.... yes we get that a planning inspector makes a recommendation, but it still has to be nodded through by a Pickles or Javid, who the last time I looked were in government.

Who appoints your inspector chums?  By that I mean who are they answerable to, at the top of the food chain.... wouldn't be any Government agencies by any chance 

Erm, a) SoS merely confirmed the Inspectors decision, if they had contradicted* it your argument, whilst poorly informed, would have held at least a little weight. as for b) PINS are an executive agency of government so are essentially independent as they hold legal and constitutional separation from ministerial control (I can just imagine you getting the baby oil out if appeals were managed by a private body) so they appoint their own staff, as I know when they didn't appoint me (with hindsight thankfully) about 5 years back!

*From experience (which I know in your conspiratorial world is nowhere near as important as what a bloke told you in the pub) SoS rarely over rules inspectors and when they do its mainly the other way, i.e Inspector will say approve and SOS says not to (in fact it happened yesterday on a big scheme).

[horlock07]

How is the Secretary of State, a senior member of the government, "nowt to do with government"?

See response to your fellow conspiracy theorist above...  In this case its at best a  procedural rubber stamping process - but hey what do I know.

[horlock07]

I think Horlock is pointing out the the Govt/SoS only ensure that the correct legal process has been followed.  IN this regard, isn't SBC pretty much fucked every time someone approaches for housing, as they've not accounted for enough in the local plan?

So long as the application complies with local planning policy, any rejection based on political desires/local noise will be over turned, which is what happened with Coate.

Unless I am very wrong.

Nope you are pretty darn right, but then again you are not trying to shoehorn a point using flawed information!  

It's not a ruse if SBC can't sort themselves out.

Yeah but the Council have the keyboard warriors to support their position.