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Author Topic: New training ground  (Read 23694 times)
garethgillman


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« Reply #180 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:49:54 »

If true that is a concern as surely it would mean certain individuals would be loaning the money to the Trust so you would imaging have a hold over the CG until perhaps paid back.

But I read they was to offer bonds so fans could be able to have a stake in owning the club.

The fans will be able to buy bonds but there is a group of businessmen who are willing to put the majority of the money needed up to buy the ground, they were initially going to invest into roofing the SB but decided they couldn't as they wouldn't own the SB, they put the motion forward to the trust that they would give the trust the money they need only if the trust owned the ground (not the stands). This means the trust then have collateral and have income coming into keep maintaining the SB and other things.
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garethgillman


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« Reply #181 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 13:57:38 »

This seems to be a recurring issue raised, the two stands of any useful function are the Arkells and DRS, however one is in excess of 40 years old and the other at least 20, in any such structure the only bits that can be reused are the steel framing and in all cases this has to be extracted from the cladding material and have all the concrete and brick removed. From professional experience demolition costs a lot more than people think and on that basis alone I would conclude that neither of the stands have any real value and in both cases it would probably be cheaper to buy new than try and extract these from the CG site (at great cost), transport somewhere else (at cost) and then rebuild (at further cost). It just ain't going to happen.

Realistically, apart from the DR, all the stands need knocking down and rebuilding but that comes at a great expense (the DR can be extended especially with exec boxes in the middle). It's not going to happen for a very long time as raising that sort of money isn't easy and the trust / club will want to own the land before they go spending 10m+ on building brand new stands BUT the club desperately need them to increase attendances and also to increase matchday revenue.

If the club were to leave the CG they could sell the stands for scrap and make a pretty penny from that leaving the trust with nothing on the land so they have a dead duck of grass but no use for it, so they realistically have to keep the club and it's owners on good terms in the future.

I like the way things are going recently with the training facility and the ground purchase but Power needs to step up and do his part to try and put some life back into the team as it's kind of wilting at the moment.
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horlock07


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« Reply #182 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 14:02:33 »

The fans will be able to buy bonds but there is a group of businessmen who are willing to put the majority of the money needed up to buy the ground.
But these 'businessmen' are either going to want their money back (with interest? and thus a loan) or will own the ground which will potentially bring us into a third party ownership scenario like the Kassam, unless they have promised just to give a million notes to the Trust. At least with the Council owning we have some certainty that with their ineptitude they are unlikely to have the appetite or professional ability to screw us over.


If the club were to leave the CG they could sell the stands for scrap and make a pretty penny from that leaving the trust with nothing on the land so they have a dead duck of grass but no use for it, so they realistically have to keep the club and it's owners on good terms in the future.


They will struggle to make a pretty penny, scrap values are not to bad but that's clean scrap steel, steel that has concrete bonded to it all over the place and still forms part of a building isn't worth very much as its a pain in the arse to move and process.
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RedRag


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« Reply #183 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 14:09:11 »

Interesting concerns on third party funding and clearance costs and values.  It would be better for TSTFC not to own the Ground than invite a Kassam situation.  I think that the club not owning the Ground has indeed protected the club in the past.

The risk of the club changing grounds in the future does surely pose a serious question for TSTFC.  

One would hope that some alternative development of the land could be made (with pre-agreed split re possible planning gain between SBC and TSTFC) with some sporting aspect to any development/and or financial inducement taking care of the Goddard sporting covenant (if enforceable).  It might even have to be sold for a land bank of some builder.

TSTFC could then reinvest in any new ground project if invited, re-pay any bondholders or other investors in its CG project and/or be better equipped to buy STFC.

Certainly there do seem to be some off-field reasons to be cheerful - though this time 6 or 7 years ago some of us were dreaming that 2017 might see a shiny, re-developed CG hosting sustainable Championship football.
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garethgillman


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« Reply #184 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 14:13:40 »

But these 'businessmen' are either going to want their money back (with interest? and thus a loan) or will own the ground which will potentially bring us into a third party ownership scenario like the Kassam, unless they have promised just to give a million notes to the Trust. At least with the Council owning we have some certainty that with their ineptitude they are unlikely to have the appetite or professional ability to screw us over.

That's a question for the trust but I believe they would be putting in the money on the same terms as fans which are bonds, they can't call in / sell their bonds and can't ask for their money back, it's basically a donation to the trust.
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garethgillman


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« Reply #185 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 14:20:19 »

Certainly there do seem to be some off-field reasons to be cheerful - though this time 6 or 7 years ago some of us were dreaming that 2017 might see a shiny, re-developed CG hosting sustainable Championship football.

how times change eh? Unfortunately even the greatest plans go down the shitter and basically it's the same as it's always been at stfc, poor financial management which then leads the club to be sold onto the next person to try and change things.

For all his faults, Power is trying to be open about his ultimate goals, he said from the start he was never going to finance the club personally so the club would have to run at break even, he would get the club it's own training facility and get us championship within 3 years or something.

He hasn't given us the championship football yet but there is some optimism about the other things, it maybe that getting us to the championship is beyond what he can do on the budgets he has set so possibly will need to sell on now he has partially completed the other things he set out to do (profitable club / training facility). Things look bleak on the football side but overall the club seems to be in a good position, just needs some investment in the team, will that be from Power? time will tell.
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Audrey's Bellend


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« Reply #186 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 16:36:12 »

I know fuck all about these things, but can there not be a scenario whereby the present CG site is sold for development to the highest bidder, SBC take their 2m or whatever it is they would accept from the Trust and then reinvest the remainder in a new stadium somewhere else in the borough.

The CG site must be worth a fortune if allowed to be developed commercially.
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garethgillman


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« Reply #187 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 16:54:55 »

I know fuck all about these things, but can there not be a scenario whereby the present CG site is sold for development to the highest bidder, SBC take their 2m or whatever it is they would accept from the Trust and then reinvest the remainder in a new stadium somewhere else in the borough.

The CG site must be worth a fortune if allowed to be developed commercially.

It has a covenant on it so can only be used for sporting purposes, hence why the council won't let the club move away from the ground as they would have a useless piece of land they won't get 200k rent from  Embarrassed
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« Reply #188 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 16:56:27 »

oh ffs.... calling Pauld ...covenant claxon
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #189 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:04:03 »

It has a covenant on it so can only be used for sporting purposes, hence why the council won't let the club move away from the ground as they would have a useless piece of land they won't get 200k rent from  Embarrassed
Don't get PaulD started as I did a couple of weeks ago Wink
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horlock07


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« Reply #190 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:05:15 »

It has a covenant on it so can only be used for sporting purposes, hence why the council won't let the club move away from the ground as they would have a useless piece of land they won't get 200k rent from  Embarrassed

I will let the Covenant King answer that point, but I am more intrigued regarding the manner that the Council 'won't let the club move away from the ground' as the club only have (I think) a rolling lease at the moment they could fuck off with probably a years? notice and there is nothing the Council could do - bar hit them with some dilapidation claims.
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garethgillman


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« Reply #191 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:14:26 »

I will let the Covenant King answer that point, but I am more intrigued regarding the manner that the Council 'won't let the club move away from the ground' as the club only have (I think) a rolling lease at the moment they could fuck off with probably a years? notice and there is nothing the Council could do - bar hit them with some dilapidation claims.

The club would have to buy land to put the new ground on, guess who owns a lot of the land in the Swindon borough? Now lets say that the club get hold of some land, they need planning permission to build anything in on that land, guess who runs that? The club have come up with many plans to either rebuild the cg or move to a new stadium over the years and the council always step in the way e.g.

- was going to be something up by the M4 J15 - didn't happen as it's not brownfield land, but they can build a hospital
- was going to be where whitchelstow is now - didn't happen
- was going to be north swindon (shaw) - didn't happen

http://www.swindontown-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/stadium_plans_rejected_167407/index.shtml

The council will do as much as they can to stop the club moving as they don't want them out of the town as they will lose 200k a year in rent, thousands in taxes and the numerous other things that the football depends on including bus users, parking etc.

The only chance of the club getting anything new would be to build it out of the Swindon borough (so either down by chippenham or up by Hungerford).
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Don Rogers Sock


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« Reply #192 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:26:09 »

The club would have to buy land to put the new ground on, guess who owns a lot of the land in the Swindon borough? Now lets say that the club get hold of some land, they need planning permission to build anything in on that land, guess who runs that? The club have come up with many plans to either rebuild the cg or move to a new stadium over the years and the council always step in the way e.g.

- was going to be something up by the M4 J15 - didn't happen as it's not brownfield land, but they can build a hospital
- was going to be where whitchelstow is now - didn't happen
- was going to be north swindon (shaw) - didn't happen

http://www.swindontown-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/stadium_plans_rejected_167407/index.shtml

The council will do as much as they can to stop the club moving as they don't want them out of the town as they will lose 200k a year in rent, thousands in taxes and the numerous other things that the football depends on including bus users, parking etc.

The only chance of the club getting anything new would be to build it out of the Swindon borough (so either down by chippenham or up by Hungerford).
I mean this in the nicest possible way but none of that makes any sense whatsoever to me
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #193 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:28:30 »

Gareth. Your posts would be more agreeable if you stopped stating your opinion as a fact.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #194 on: Wednesday, April 19, 2017, 17:29:57 »

Gareth. Your posts would be more agreeable if you stopped stating your opinion as a fact.

Gareth doesn't really get this shit.
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