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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1078696 times)
Flashheart

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« Reply #8880 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 12:38:45 »

OK.

I'll make a bit more of an effort.

How are people supposed to budget with money that they don't have?

What if their income does not meet their expenses?
What if they are already limiting their expenditure to the point where they are paying as little as they possibly can to survive, but they still don't have enough.

What are those people supposed to do?
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« Reply #8881 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 12:42:56 »

OK.

I'll make a bit more of an effort.

How are people supposed to budget with money that they don't have?

What if their income does not meet their expenses?
What if they are already limiting their expenditure to the point where they are paying as little as they possibly can to survive, but they still don't have enough.

What are those people supposed to do?

As I said in a reply, I don't agree with UC and what that has done.  I was merely bringing a wider view, lots of people have issues with managing money for lots of reasons and advice on budgetting/managing your money better would be useful.
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woolster

« Reply #8882 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 12:49:38 »

LABOUR PARTY DEBRIEFING:

"I just don't get it, we've spent the last 3 and a half years calling working class people fascist scum, nazi pigs, Little Englanders, Brexshitters and morons and then when you ask for their vote the bastards vote against us."

.
You also follow Mr Hirst on twitter  Wink
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Flashheart

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« Reply #8883 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 12:50:24 »

As I said in a reply, I don't agree with UC and what that has done.  I was merely bringing a wider view, lots of people have issues with managing money for lots of reasons and advice on budgetting/managing your money better would be useful.

You didn't answer the question.

How is somebody supposed to budget with money that they don't have?

Let's say they need 100 quid to survive but they only have 80 quid. They can't 'budget' because every penny of their income goes on what they need to survive on food etc. They are already spending as little as they possibly can and sometimes go hungry because that have no money for food.

They have nothing left from the previous month because they were also short that month. And the month before that. And so on.

What are they supposed to do?
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STFC_Manc

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« Reply #8884 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 12:52:56 »

You didn't answer the question.

How is somebody supposed to budget with money that they don't have?

Let's say they need 100 quid to survive but they only have 80 quid. They can't 'budget' because every penny of their income goes on what they need to survive on food etc. They are already spending as little as they possibly can and sometimes go hungry because that have no money for food.

They have nothing left from the previous month because they were also short that month. And the month before that. And so on.

What are they supposed to do?

I didn't answer the question because you are making a valid point. I have stated I don't agree with UC (the reason why), which is what you have missed.
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Flashheart

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« Reply #8885 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 12:59:24 »

Quote
I was merely bringing a wider view, lots of people have issues with managing money for lots of reasons and advice on budgetting/managing your money better would be useful.

BUT WHAT IF THEY HAVE NO MONEY TO MANAGE?

Now you have made me use my shouty voice. Please answer the fucking question.

Could you imagine not being able to feed your kids only for some cunt to say you need to manage your money better? (money that you don't have)



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« Reply #8886 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 13:00:27 »

Why are you saying I have made a good point but you are still defending what that prick said?
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« Reply #8887 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 13:25:34 »

Honest question:
Universal credit has been a disaster to those in need because of the way it's been implemented, delays in payment, cruel assessments, underfunding etc. But properly funded and run, is it is it inherently a bad system or is it better than the previous proliferation of benefits?
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« Reply #8888 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 15:07:47 »

Properly funded and run, and reworked so it is as fair as the systems it is replacing, it then works better.

So, rather than claiming Child tax credits/working tax credits through HMRC, Housing Benefit through your Local Council, and for example Income Support through DWP, you claim it all through one place.

However, having worked in Benefits for 15+ years, it is a disaster. It is currently costing four times as much to process a Universal Credit claim as a Housing Benefit claim (was supposed to save on admin). There are so many mistakes it is unbelievable, i'm in contact with the manager at the local DWP office on a daily basis to point them out and get them corrected.

Making people wait 5 1/2 weeks for any money is just totalling wrong. Yes, they can now get advances, but that is only taken out of the following payments.

I sit in front of the bank of desks dealing with foodbanks etc, and the phone calls on a daily basis would make you depressed, the vast majority are genuine cases caused by hardship. And this has increased loads since Universal Credit was launched, and it's not properly rolled out yet.

Before it is, i would hope the government would change payments to fortnightly (as per previous benefits), make the payments the same as previous benefits (for example a couple claiming Jobseeker's allowance at the couple rate get less claiming as a couple on Universal Credit), get the software to work properly (long shot for any government project i know), and trial the full rollout in more deprived areas to low numbers of people, to make sure the full rollout will work properly. They are currently trialing it in Harrogate, once of the most affluant areas in Britain.

I'm already seeing vulnerable people fall through the cracks quite often, as the support isn't out there as it used to be due to funding cuts, and i'm very concerned about the full rollout being a disaster.

But i'll reiterate, done properly and fairly it should make life easier for people claiming, that was one of the points, but it isn't doing that at the moment.
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« Reply #8889 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 20:40:04 »

Why are you saying I have made a good point but you are still defending what that prick said?

I was never defending what he said, I was just quoting his words rather than the headline.

If your left bias doesn't allow a true reflection, then that's your problem
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« Reply #8890 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 22:31:36 »


Properly funded and run, and reworked so it is as fair as the systems it is replacing, it then works better.

So, rather than claiming Child tax credits/working tax credits through HMRC, Housing Benefit through your Local Council, and for example Income Support through DWP, you claim it all through one place.

However, having worked in Benefits for 15+ years, it is a disaster. It is currently costing four times as much to process a Universal Credit claim as a Housing Benefit claim (was supposed to save on admin). There are so many mistakes it is unbelievable, i'm in contact with the manager at the local DWP office on a daily basis to point them out and get them corrected.

Making people wait 5 1/2 weeks for any money is just totalling wrong. Yes, they can now get advances, but that is only taken out of the following payments.

I sit in front of the bank of desks dealing with foodbanks etc, and the phone calls on a daily basis would make you depressed, the vast majority are genuine cases caused by hardship. And this has increased loads since Universal Credit was launched, and it's not properly rolled out yet.

Before it is, i would hope the government would change payments to fortnightly (as per previous benefits), make the payments the same as previous benefits (for example a couple claiming Jobseeker's allowance at the couple rate get less claiming as a couple on Universal Credit), get the software to work properly (long shot for any government project i know), and trial the full rollout in more deprived areas to low numbers of people, to make sure the full rollout will work properly. They are currently trialing it in Harrogate, once of the most affluant areas in Britain.

I'm already seeing vulnerable people fall through the cracks quite often, as the support isn't out there as it used to be due to funding cuts, and i'm very concerned about the full rollout being a disaster.

But i'll reiterate, done properly and fairly it should make life easier for people claiming, that was one of the points, but it isn't doing that at the moment.

As always, as with most government project developments, what is a good idea in principle turns into shambles. A haphazard design, very little planning and plainly not enough consultation with end users. For example how could anyone have thought that the cutover process from one system to another leaving some without cover was good enough to allow it to rolled out, shocking.

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Red Frog
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« Reply #8891 on: Saturday, December 14, 2019, 22:57:02 »

Properly funded and run, and reworked so it is as fair as the systems it is replacing, it then works better.

So, rather than claiming Child tax credits/working tax credits through HMRC, Housing Benefit through your Local Council, and for example Income Support through DWP, you claim it all through one place.

However, having worked in Benefits for 15+ years, it is a disaster. It is currently costing four times as much to process a Universal Credit claim as a Housing Benefit claim (was supposed to save on admin). There are so many mistakes it is unbelievable, i'm in contact with the manager at the local DWP office on a daily basis to point them out and get them corrected.

Making people wait 5 1/2 weeks for any money is just totalling wrong. Yes, they can now get advances, but that is only taken out of the following payments.

I sit in front of the bank of desks dealing with foodbanks etc, and the phone calls on a daily basis would make you depressed, the vast majority are genuine cases caused by hardship. And this has increased loads since Universal Credit was launched, and it's not properly rolled out yet.

Before it is, i would hope the government would change payments to fortnightly (as per previous benefits), make the payments the same as previous benefits (for example a couple claiming Jobseeker's allowance at the couple rate get less claiming as a couple on Universal Credit), get the software to work properly (long shot for any government project i know), and trial the full rollout in more deprived areas to low numbers of people, to make sure the full rollout will work properly. They are currently trialing it in Harrogate, once of the most affluant areas in Britain.

I'm already seeing vulnerable people fall through the cracks quite often, as the support isn't out there as it used to be due to funding cuts, and i'm very concerned about the full rollout being a disaster.

But i'll reiterate, done properly and fairly it should make life easier for people claiming, that was one of the points, but it isn't doing that at the moment.

Thanks for this. Great to have such a clear insider’s view. This looks exactly like what happens when a basically good idea gets caught up with politically expedient implementation deadlines and too little care for those affected.
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« Reply #8892 on: Sunday, December 15, 2019, 11:20:37 »

Properly funded and run, and reworked so it is as fair as the systems it is replacing, it then works better.

Thanks Bedford. That's what I thought. I wondered why Labour were plannng to tear it all up and start again - surely that would bring even more administrative confusion and inefficiency.
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« Reply #8893 on: Sunday, December 15, 2019, 11:55:42 »

Thanks Bedford. That's what I thought. I wondered why Labour were plannng to tear it all up and start again - surely that would bring even more administrative confusion and inefficiency.

It probably would, most things do from what i've seen. However it would have ended up with a fairer system, slightly more complicated, but not much more than Universal Credit is (which it shouldn't be).
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« Reply #8894 on: Monday, December 16, 2019, 09:03:57 »

£1.20 v €
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