Let's Get Political!

[BambooToTheFuture]

Jesus read a bloody history book rather than the Daily Express and you never know you might learn something.....

What is this bloody obsession that right wingers have with the war, trying to conceal nationalism (which our forefathers fought to prevent) with a skewed bastardisation of patriotism.

I suspect you have no experience of the war, my old man lived through the war in Swindon, cowering under the table in a shelter during raids, making friends with German PoW's (I suspect that in your mind that probably makes 7 year old Horlock07 senior a traitor), mixing with all the Polish incomers and RAF members and not seeing his dad (that he can remember) until he was about 9.

Everyone who fought during these conflicts vowed to never forget and never again at the end, yet there are those who seek to galmorise the conflict and still use it to justify their world view suggesting that its some manner of high point in history (and blithely forgetting that in each case we didn't win on our own, in both cases France and Russia took an absolute shoeing!

Subsequently my old man moved to France and used to attend remembrance Sunday every year in the small town in southern France they moved to (I imagine that makes his a traitor as well), the first year they just turned up with a wreath to lay, after that it got to the stage that he and his wife were approached each year by the Mayor to ask if they still wanted to lay a wreath to remember the British dead and they were invited to the event after the formal ceremony with the veterans of the town (despite my old man only being a kid during the war) so that all nationalities could remember together - go and visit a French War memorial, they make ours look sparsely populated!

Whether you like it or not, you are European (assuming you are British, its not clear) and that isn't going to change, we are stronger together and I remain a proud European, British and English (although probably less proud to be English in recent years for reasons that you so beautifully articulate!)

Well fucking said!

[Reg Smeeton]

Well fucking said!

TBF... I don't think after Brexit we'll cease to be European.... the EU is largely a trading block, of which membership has been beneficial to the UK economically.  The more cultural aspects of European identity will still be in place, for example the Eurovision Song Contest and UEFA tournaments.... who knows we may see a revival of the Anglo Italian Cup.

OK, SRK might argue that the AIC was before we joined Common Market, so its demise can be blamed on Bruxelles, but he'd be forgetting the early 90's comeback.

I'm sure also that it will still be entirely possible for the likes of a Tom Paine to seek asylum in France and a Voltaire to hole up in GB.

No the hit will be financial rather than cultural for the lower orders....

[BambooToTheFuture]

TBF... I don't think after Brexit we'll cease to be European.... the EU is largely a trading block, of which membership has been beneficial to the UK economically.  The more cultural aspects of European identity will still be in place, for example the Eurovision Song Contest and UEFA tournaments.... who knows we may see a revival of the Anglo Italian Cup.

OK, SRK might argue that the AIC was before we joined Common Market, so its demise can be blamed on Bruxelles, but he'd be forgetting the early 90's comeback.

I'm sure also that it will still be entirely possible for the likes of a Tom Paine to seek asylum in France and a Voltaire to hole up in GB.


No the hit will be financial rather than cultural for the lower orders....

I totally understand all that Reg but I don't no why you quoted me? 

[Reg Smeeton]

I totally understand all that Reg but I don't no why you quoted me? 

Convenience.... Horlock wrote a long piece to which you agreed, so it was just housekeeping.... tidier

[horlock07]

George Soros came round and asked me to link to this piece in the libtard rag he funds...

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/parliaments-arch-brexiteers-held-a-press-conference-and-everyone-is-pointing-out-the-same-thing_uk_5bf3fcc5e4b0376c9e68b2a6?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter

[chalkies_shorts]

I do think us leavers fall into the war or empire trap. In my view, both irrelevant to this debate. There is also sometimes little distinction between Europe and the EU. I like Europe but despise the EU. I don't wish Europe anything but financial success, just not with us as part of it. I obviously wish us more success 
As for Soros, it's what he does. It should be expected that foreign nationals will try and exploit brexit on both sides. Why wouldn't they.
In terms of nationality I'm a very proud swindonian who is also proud of being English but also proud of my Irish roots. I've never considered myself European and never will.

[Sir red ken]

It is no different to the Britain of old claiming a "British Empire" except at least a "European Empire" does seem to be a little more democratic and inclusive. Ours was full of land-grabbing, raping and pillaging. More like the "Brutish Empire".

I noticed you singled out the British Empire and ignore the russsian, japanese,french,german,roman etc.
This specific targeting of Britain make you a racist.

[RobertT]

I think it is pretty clear, looking back at history, that all those Empires would be treated with hostility in the modern world.  The Nazi Germany attempt was a little different although not unique - it desired the extermination of entire cultures and races.  Many of the others had pretty horrid consequences for those subjugated though.

[Sir red ken]

I do think us leavers fall into the war or empire trap. In my view, both irrelevant to this debate. There is also sometimes little distinction between Europe and the EU. I like Europe but despise the EU. I don't wish Europe anything but financial success, just not with us as part of it. I obviously wish us more success 
As for Soros, it's what he does. It should be expected that foreign nationals will try and exploit brexit on both sides. Why wouldn't they.
In terms of nationality I'm a very proud swindonian who is also proud of being English but also proud of my Irish roots. I've never considered myself European and never will.

Brilliantly put by a true patriot, proud of his ancestry,country and Town. Europe is a continent with many nations, not another communist block. We know how badly that ended.

[Reg Smeeton]

I think it is pretty clear, looking back at history, that all those Empires would be treated with hostility in the modern world.  The Nazi Germany attempt was a little different although not unique - it desired the extermination of entire cultures and races.  Many of the others had pretty horrid consequences for those subjugated though.

The US Empire and its continued pursuit of global hegemony had horrid consequences for many peoples....

[Sir red ken]

The US Empire and its continued pursuit of global hegemony had horrid consequences for many peoples....

It has, all Empires have been bad for everyone, except the dominant force. The EU will be next to try it with their Empire, if not why build one?

[Reg Smeeton]

It has, all Empires have been bad for everyone, except the dominant force. The EU will be next to try it with their Empire, if not why build one?

Yeah... what have the Romans ever done for us

[ReadingRed]

Proud european

[BambooToTheFuture]

I noticed you singled out the British Empire and ignore the russsian, japanese,french,german,roman etc.
This specific targeting of Britain make you a racist.

It was relevant, seeing as we're British and leaving the E.U. You behaved as if the British Empire behaved like butter wouldn't melt.

If you really, really knew me...you'd know I'm not racist at all. I would retract that claim if I were you. You stated it with certain sincerity. As if it were a claim of truth.

[BambooToTheFuture]

Convenience.... Horlock wrote a long piece to which you agreed, so it was just housekeeping.... tidier

Je vois, merci.