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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1996848 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #3945 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 16:17:51 »

Of course you're not.  Because you voted for unicorns, and they don't exist.  And now you're all chopsy because Theresa could't find your magical unicorns but, instead, has produced a knackered, flea-bitten pony.

The prospectus you voted for was never going to be delivered - because it was impossible to deliver. The EU was always going to hold the cards.  Don't blame May for that.  Blame yourself.  You got sucked in, and fell for an unachievable pipedream.

As others have said, you & your fellow Leavers need to own this.  We've been warning you about this for 2½ years and, frankly, it's getting a little tedious now.

I think prospectus is a little OTT, back of fag packet would better describe the utopia sold by the leave campaign which was debunked by sheer practicality and the absence of any coherent plan from those trying to sell it. I heard an interview on the radio last night with Crispin Blunt (gay MP who spent years voting against gay rights, a right man of principal) and he was rolling out the blessed are the german car makers line again, even now they cannot tell the truth.

I take little pleasure in this (and hate my country being reduced to an international laughing stock), I have little love for the EU, however I like travelling and meeting new people, I like having a job and I like the thought of my daughter having the opportunities that I was lucky enough to benefit from, I see no benefits ever stated that (IMO - others are available) offset these benefits, ultimately its never nice realising you have been repeated lied to and I understand the anger (which in many cases is what the leave campaign tapped into to provide some people who need a bogeyman to blame for their own decisions and is now being repeated with May and Robins), but that's life you reap what you sow and all that jazz.

I note my learned colleague Bogus Dave put things altogether more succinctly above though!  Cheesy
« Last Edit: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 16:26:28 by horlock07 » Logged
Flashheart

« Reply #3946 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 16:25:56 »


As others have said, you & your fellow Leavers need to own this.  We've been warning you about this for 2½ years and, frankly, it's getting a little tedious now.

Or, in other words: You won... get over it.
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« Reply #3947 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 16:29:50 »

Quote from: Sir red ken
We're not getting what the majority of us voted for! .

you are. you voted to leave the EU. We are leaving the EU. The government is implementing it as guided by the referendum result.

Blame Boris, Gove and JRM for walking away and not leaving a plan on how to execute.

anyway "it's the will of the people", and "people know what they voted for"
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horlock07

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« Reply #3948 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 16:42:16 »

you are. you voted to leave the EU. We are leaving the EU. The government is implementing it as guided by the referendum result.

Blame Boris, Gove and JRM for walking away and not leaving a plan on how to execute.

anyway "it's the will of the people", and "people know what they voted for"

Suggested that Gove will take it if he can renegotiate the deal, when the hell is he going to do that, especially if he follows the ERG line?

« Last Edit: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 16:54:21 by horlock07 » Logged
RobertT

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« Reply #3949 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 17:46:10 »

you are. you voted to leave the EU. We are leaving the EU. The government is implementing it as guided by the referendum result.

Blame Boris, Gove and JRM for walking away and not leaving a plan on how to execute.

anyway "it's the will of the people", and "people know what they voted for"

I think people are missing his point - they'd be happy to leave with no plan, just get out, sever all ties and work it out after.

We may not like that concept because it seems absurd to place the country in such a bizarre position when it comes to the economy, to immigration policy enforcement etc.

52% voted out - not out with strings.  If people voted Out but wanted to have a deal in place, tough shit, it wasn't on the ballot.  I fear though that it's mostly the 48% worried about the deal (quite rightly, given their opinion on leaving).  There is no legal need to have a deal in place though - people need to consider their voting habits if they can't understand the impact.

I think leaving is completely absurd, but if we don't just rip the plaster off, you will still have all the grumblings we have had that pushed us down this path in the first place.

For me, the choice should have been made much clearer:

a) Vote to leave the EU, lock stock and barrel - any deals made ahead of time would be a bonus, but accept your vote is likely to be an overnight divorce
b) Vote to stay in the EU with no guarantees for any changes, accepting the future path - one that you can influence but cannot control

The desire to have a middle ground is the problem.  We should accept one doesn't exist, make a choice and then make the best of that choice.  I think the country would have voted a) still.  I think more people who voted leave agree with the Hard Brexit concept than there were people voted to remain that would be happy to join the European Currency for example.
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« Reply #3950 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 18:27:39 »

I was just trying to wind SRK up to be honest
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3951 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 18:35:43 »

I was just trying to wind SRK up to be honest

SRK probably thinks like May.... you're a New World Order stooge, planted by the Rockefellers, to propagate a global communist takeover.
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #3952 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 19:18:15 »

I think people are missing his point - they'd be happy to leave with no plan, just get out, sever all ties and work it out after.

We may not like that concept because it seems absurd to place the country in such a bizarre position when it comes to the economy, to immigration policy enforcement etc.

52% voted out - not out with strings.  If people voted Out but wanted to have a deal in place, tough shit, it wasn't on the ballot.  I fear though that it's mostly the 48% worried about the deal (quite rightly, given their opinion on leaving).  There is no legal need to have a deal in place though - people need to consider their voting habits if they can't understand the impact.

I think leaving is completely absurd, but if we don't just rip the plaster off, you will still have all the grumblings we have had that pushed us down this path in the first place.

For me, the choice should have been made much clearer:

a) Vote to leave the EU, lock stock and barrel - any deals made ahead of time would be a bonus, but accept your vote is likely to be an overnight divorce
b) Vote to stay in the EU with no guarantees for any changes, accepting the future path - one that you can influence but cannot control

The desire to have a middle ground is the problem.  We should accept one doesn't exist, make a choice and then make the best of that choice.  I think the country would have voted a) still.  I think more people who voted leave agree with the Hard Brexit concept than there were people voted to remain that would be happy to join the European Currency for example.
I think you've just hit the nail on the head.
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RedRag

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« Reply #3953 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 21:48:15 »

Nail hit way off centre with nothing fixed. IMO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is right to keep it friendly.

I do suggest however that if any posters are claiming they know what all leave voters intended when they voted "leave the EU" then they should just pause and reflect on the thought processes that led them to make such a claim.

Or back up such claims with evidence.

I recall a multiplicity of examples of arrangements of countries outside the EU having been given before the referendum.
« Last Edit: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 21:51:03 by RedRag » Logged
Sir red ken

« Reply #3954 on: Thursday, November 15, 2018, 22:08:29 »

I was just trying to wind SRK up to be honest
Good man I like your style. Shows you can think for yourself.
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RobertT

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« Reply #3955 on: Friday, November 16, 2018, 00:36:35 »

Nail hit way off centre with nothing fixed. IMO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is right to keep it friendly.

I do suggest however that if any posters are claiming they know what all leave voters intended when they voted "leave the EU" then they should just pause and reflect on the thought processes that led them to make such a claim.

Or back up such claims with evidence.

I recall a multiplicity of examples of arrangements of countries outside the EU having been given before the referendum.

My opinion is just that, an opinion.  It is based on exposure to the subject - I have yet to see someone on here who said they voted leave that wouldn't accept Hard Brexit and in my personal life I know plenty who voted leave who would happily all take Hard Brexit (my parents being very close examples).

I have also yet to meet someone at my end of the spectrum, so my gut tells me more people who voted to remain have issues with the EU than there are voters who voted to leave that have some positive views of the EU.  The remain vote was in fact based off discussion to try and get concessions from the EU to help.  That goes to show that the UK population is not really IN.  Most people I have spoken to about the EU like the idea of a trading block but do not like the idea of further integration, which is what should happen if you stay in.

Hard Brexit was always a potential outcome of voting to Leave, so if you voted that way but didn't really want to end up with that result, you probably should have voted to remain or abstain.

I think the country is nuts, but it is the country and it voted.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #3956 on: Friday, November 16, 2018, 01:23:24 »

And some bloke called Shailesh Vara has gone too, N Ireland minister apparently (no I've never heard of him either)

...and likely pronounced "Stephen O' Hara" no doubt!
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
chalkies_shorts

« Reply #3957 on: Friday, November 16, 2018, 06:34:07 »

My opinion is just that, an opinion.  It is based on exposure to the subject - I have yet to see someone on here who said they voted leave that wouldn't accept Hard Brexit and in my personal life I know plenty who voted leave who would happily all take Hard Brexit (my parents being very close examples).

I have also yet to meet someone at my end of the spectrum, so my gut tells me more people who voted to remain have issues with the EU than there are voters who voted to leave that have some positive views of the EU.  The remain vote was in fact based off discussion to try and get concessions from the EU to help.  That goes to show that the UK population is not really IN.  Most people I have spoken to about the EU like the idea of a trading block but do not like the idea of further integration, which is what should happen if you stay in.

Hard Brexit was always a potential outcome of voting to Leave, so if you voted that way but didn't really want to end up with that result, you probably should have voted to remain or abstain.

I think the country is nuts, but it is the country and it voted.
Exactly as I see it albeit I would argue the country was seeing sense. Robert t, you speak a lot of sense on this subject and the people you speak to echo those I speak to.
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #3958 on: Friday, November 16, 2018, 08:13:19 »

My opinion is just that, an opinion.  It is based on exposure to the subject - I have yet to see someone on here who said they voted leave that wouldn't accept Hard Brexit and in my personal life I know plenty who voted leave who would happily all take Hard Brexit (my parents being very close examples).

I have also yet to meet someone at my end of the spectrum, so my gut tells me more people who voted to remain have issues with the EU than there are voters who voted to leave that have some positive views of the EU.  The remain vote was in fact based off discussion to try and get concessions from the EU to help.  That goes to show that the UK population is not really IN.  Most people I have spoken to about the EU like the idea of a trading block but do not like the idea of further integration, which is what should happen if you stay in.

Hard Brexit was always a potential outcome of voting to Leave, so if you voted that way but didn't really want to end up with that result, you probably should have voted to remain or abstain.

I think the country is nuts, but it is the country and it voted.

Just about sums up where I come from.
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normy

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« Reply #3959 on: Friday, November 16, 2018, 08:22:52 »

I voted Remain because I thought that a hard Brexit would be disastrous for trade and prosperity, although I dislke much of the European Union's drive towards ever close union and perhaps a European army and other aspects. Almost Orwellian.

I am surprised at how much TM has managed to gain in the draft, and if it wasn't for the N Ireland question I would be happy with the deal on its first appearance. However, there is a lot of detail to emerge yet and it will be interesting.  Better than House of Cards imo.
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ust be the oldest
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