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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1995777 times)
Sir red ken

« Reply #3765 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:14:26 »

There was a famous group in history who used similar terminology to describe those who dared to disagree with them....  Hmmm




A brain washed Left wing Nazi calling others a Nazi, oh the Irony. My family is Jews so suck on that you self righteous Nazi.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #3766 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:18:49 »

Our political class and civil servant are mostly EU funded nutters, they would agree to anything by the EU, but to answer your question and its going to hurt..."More than 50,000 EU laws introduced in the UK over last 25 years highlights scale of challenge facing lawmakers following ‘Brexit" so they've imposed legal rquirements on the UK. How's that made you think again? No thought not keep speaking the rullling classes words.

Reg did say "...something that our politicians/civil service didn't want." but you seem to have let that important point go over your troll sized head.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #3767 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:22:01 »

So when Ted took us into the EU and said they'd be no loss of sovereignty,when he knew full well there would be, he wasn't cheating?When John Major hid the facts of the Maastricht Treaty from Parliment that wasn't cheating? When Moron Brown signed the lesbian treaty without consent of the people further enslaving the uk that wasn't cheating.
Think you missed RedRag's very good point
This is not about he lied, she lied in the rough and tumble of an election campaign.  It's about illegality, alleged illegality.
The examples you cite are, you allege, examples of politicans lying or bending the truth. The allegations against Banks are of actual criminality. There's a difference
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3768 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:22:41 »

Our political class and civil servant are mostly EU funded nutters, they would agree to anything by the EU, but to answer your question and its going to hurt..."More than 50,000 EU laws introduced in the UK over last 25 years highlights scale of challenge facing lawmakers following ‘Brexit" so they've imposed legal rquirements on the UK. How's that made you think again? No thought not keep speaking the rullling classes words.

As I said we pooled our sovereignty in certain areas, this has largely been beneficial, it's why we chose to goi down that route. May said some time ago that all the EU agreed laws will pass back into UK law on Brexit, and then can be scrutinisd and unpicked if required.  It's mostly things like agreed food standards and environmental standards.... these are not things which will change much on Brexit, as we'll need to stay aligned in order to carry on trading.

It's rather like the outbreak of BSE in UK cattle some years back... the EU imposed a ban on the export of UK beef, it lasted 10 years until our vets could show cattle were now clear. I guess in your head that's an example of EU imposition, which with Brexit we can ignore and flog burgers that can kill. Even with EU standards yoiu can still get things like the horse meat scandal, where products labelled as beef contained horse meat, and it seemed a Euro wide practice, but with strong links to the RoI.
« Last Edit: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:36:37 by Reg Smeeton » Logged
pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #3769 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:26:13 »

An election result can never be dismissed even if obtained on the back of illegality


Except there are many precedents for this, most recently in Kenya and Austria.  So it can and does happen.

The hypothetical question of what remedy would be appropriate if the referendum majority were found to have been obtained on the back of illegality would be determinable by a Court of law.

This is not about he lied, she lied in the rough and tumble of an election campaign.  It's about illegality, alleged illegality.

Well there is a precedent, which is the Tories' illegal overspending in Thanet to deny Farage a seat in 2015. They have been found guilty of breaking electoral law and fined for doing so, but the result stands and Mackinlay is still the sitting MP. However, he is also now on trial for the same offence, be interesting to see what happens if he is personally found guilty:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46059598
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Ardiles

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« Reply #3770 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:28:49 »

Not just that, but every time you do a deal with another country or bloc, you'll cede a bit of sovereignty.  Trade deal with the US?  You'll cede sovereignty to the US.  'Take back control' is bullshit.  We'll be the junior partner in any deal made with the US, China, India, EU etc.  There goes your sovereignty.  It's deeply depressing that so many fell for this nonsense.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3771 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:44:25 »

Not just that, but every time you do a deal with another country or bloc, you'll cede a bit of sovereignty.  Trade deal with the US?  You'll cede sovereignty to the US.  'Take back control' is bullshit.  We'll be the junior partner in any deal made with the US, China, India, EU etc.  There goes your sovereignty.  It's deeply depressing that so many fell for this nonsense.

Taking back sovereignty is a catchy line though, it sounds important even if it's bullshit.

You could argue that we should take back control of football from FIFA, as it's our game, we invented it, however we chose to pool sovereignty, and got a global game out of it. The soft power bit, which we're now incidentally throwing away with the EU, is that we got to keep a 50/50 UK voting position on IFAB, football's law making body
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Sir red ken

« Reply #3772 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:18:16 »

Taking back sovereignty is a catchy line though, it sounds important even if it's bullshit.

You could argue that we should take back control of football from FIFA, as it's our game, we invented it, however we chose to pool sovereignty, and got a global game out of it. The soft power bit, which we're now incidentally throwing away with the EU, is that we got to keep a 50/50 UK voting position on IFAB, football's law making body
Peter Shore put it correctly in 1975
A nation which takes laws from other, non elected rulers, isn't a country its a Legislative Region.
Football is a game a county is very different.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #3773 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:29:11 »

A nation which takes laws from other, non elected rulers, isn't a country its a Legislative Region.

Except one nation didn't take laws from another...

If you're referring to the EU, which works like a democratic council. That isn't a nation either. It's an economic bloc.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

______________________________________________________________

'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
RobertT

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« Reply #3774 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:31:00 »

More importantly, when are all the expats in Spain moving back?
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RedRag

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« Reply #3775 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:31:36 »

Peter Shore put it correctly in 1975
A nation which takes laws from other, non elected rulers, isn't a country its a Legislative Region.
Football is a game a county is very different.
I'd always regarded France and Germany as countries rather than regions, myself.  Thanks for pointing out my error.
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RobertT

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« Reply #3776 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:36:04 »

As it happens the EU has been an unqualified success.  This must be longest period where no European country has been at ware with another since, well, for a long old time, which was the founding reason.  You achieve that by tying the countries up in knots together - we all rely on each other for economic and social success.  So what if a bunch of sensible laws were passed during that period, better to get decent water quality than bombing each other.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3777 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:38:25 »

Peter Shore put it correctly in 1975
A nation which takes laws from other, non elected rulers, isn't a country its a Legislative Region.
Football is a game a county is very different.

But we don't, not having been invaded since 1066.

The challenge is still open to you, can you name one instance of where the EU has imposed on our sovereignty, without our Parliament's agreement.

Another example of pooled sovereignty is the Council of Europe, which administers the ECHR, there are 47 countries in the this including Russia. It developed after WW II as it was realised that as European states, we shared more than divided us, and this supranatioinal body might help avoid future European conflicts, by upholding an agreed definition of humanity.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #3778 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:40:42 »

More importantly, when are all the expats in Spain moving back?

Good news for all the Greasy Spoons back in Blighty, except sources say that there may well be a sausage shortage and we'll have to import more of the Spanish type of cured sausage. Oh the irony!  Pint
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'Incessant Nonsense'

______________________________________________________________

'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3779 on: Friday, November 2, 2018, 01:15:06 »

As it happens the EU has been an unqualified success.  This must be longest period where no European country has been at ware with another since, well, for a long old time, which was the founding reason.  You achieve that by tying the countries up in knots together - we all rely on each other for economic and social success.  So what if a bunch of sensible laws were passed during that period, better to get decent water quality than bombing each other.

Well not quite accurate, the dissolution of the former Yugoslavia into its historic warring parts, is still a source of concern, as is the whole question of Eastern Europe, and if the notions of western social democracy fit. However not our concern any longer having opted out of having any influence.
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