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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1995987 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #3750 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 15:13:07 »

'loosers'

 Hmmm

There was a famous group in history who used similar terminology to describe those who dared to disagree with them....  Hmmm



« Last Edit: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 15:14:56 by horlock07 » Logged
horlock07

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« Reply #3751 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 15:13:51 »

The bbc get 20 million per year from the EU and are not a reliable news source for that reason. Yada yada yada cliff edge,second ref, let eu citizens and children vote next time. You lost get over it!

Yeah that renown pro EU BBC.....

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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3752 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 15:15:33 »

It’s not the electoral commission who are investigating him

I don't think facts hold much sway in SRK's universe.

If Banks has done something illegal he should feel the full force of law, his wrist will have a nasty wheal for 10 minutes, however it doesn't mean the vote should be taken again.

I mean Gideon has just fessed up that perhaps he and his Old Etonian buddy fucked up a bit over this, admitting they'd failed to explain to the public just how much the economy was dependent on belonging to the EU.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #3753 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 15:24:07 »

If Banks has done something illegal he should feel the full force of law, his wrist will have a nasty wheal for 10 minutes, however it doesn't mean the vote should be taken again.

I mean Gideon has just fessed up that perhaps he and his Old Etonian buddy fucked up a bit over this, admitting they'd failed to explain to the public just how much the economy was dependent on belonging to the EU.

Not sure what you're getting at with that, though - because while that was careless, it wasn't illegal.  Neither was the Soros donation that Banks referred to in his response today, because the donation was not made during an election campaign.

If Banks or any of the campaigns that he was associated with has broken the law, the credibility of the referendum result is called in to question.  If he is found to be guilty, the clear up process might be every bit as divisive as the referendum itself - and possibly more so.  But that is not a reason to shy away from doing that.
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RedRag

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« Reply #3754 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 15:48:10 »


But everyone (I think) recognises that we cannot eliminate our need for fossil fuel at this point.  And from an ecological, financial and political viewpoint I'd rather get that fuel from Lancashire than Russia.
From a fossil point viewpoint and certainly a defensive viewpoint, I'd rather not have to rely on Lancashire
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3755 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 15:48:18 »

Not sure what you're getting at with that, though - because while that was careless, it wasn't illegal.  Neither was the Soros donation that Banks referred to in his response today, because the donation was not made during an election campaign.

If Banks or any of the campaigns that he was associated with has broken the law, the credibility of the referendum result is called in to question.  If he is found to be guilty, the clear up process might be every bit as divisive as the referendum itself - and possibly more so.  But that is not a reason to shy away from doing that.

You're showing your true LibDem tendencies here both sides lied, both sides bent the laws to get their message out. However people voted on how they interpreted those messages. Rightly or wrongly it happened and isn't going to unhappen, we get on with it.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #3756 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 16:08:51 »

I'm genuinely surprised at how unconcerned some people are about alleged illegal interference in the electoral process.  No one disputes that 'it happened', but when 'it' = a narrow victory for a campaign that is deemed to have broken the law...what does that actually mean?  'They're all at it really' is a rubbish justification for looking the other way.
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horlock07

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« Reply #3757 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 16:39:53 »

I'm genuinely surprised at how unconcerned some people are about alleged illegal interference in the electoral process.

Cos they 'won'......?
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3758 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 16:53:07 »

I'm genuinely surprised at how unconcerned some people are about alleged illegal interference in the electoral process.  No one disputes that 'it happened', but when 'it' = a narrow victory for a campaign that is deemed to have broken the law...what does that actually mean?  'They're all at it really' is a rubbish justification for looking the other way.

Our democracy has always been corrupt.... it's just about degrees of corruption. So Banks can't stick Putin's roubles into Brexit voters bank accounts, but he can arrange a bus with a big lie written on the side.

It's a bit like our Parliament can grant itself an estimated 4BN to tart up the Palace of Westminster... without consulting the people. Further these things like the New White Hart Lane are always over budget.  Why not reform Parliament, to make it fit for our times, and stick a purpose built facility on a trading estate somewhere in the Midlands.

Part of the reform would be getting shot of the unelected Lords, where 100 Lib Dems sit for their dozen MP's. Of course it won't happen... dear old Willaim Cobbett would tell you why.
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pauld
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« Reply #3759 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 16:59:22 »

loosers clutching at straws,remian were worse
Are you actually a native English speaker?
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RedRag

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« Reply #3760 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 17:04:12 »

An election result can never be dismissed even if obtained on the back of illegality


Except there are many precedents for this, most recently in Kenya and Austria.  So it can and does happen.

The hypothetical question of what remedy would be appropriate if the referendum majority were found to have been obtained on the back of illegality would be determinable by a Court of law.

This is not about he lied, she lied in the rough and tumble of an election campaign.  It's about illegality, alleged illegality.
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pauld
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« Reply #3761 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 17:21:13 »

Not sure what you're getting at with that, though - because while that was careless, it wasn't illegal.  Neither was the Soros donation that Banks referred to in his response today, because the donation was not made during an election campaign.

If Banks or any of the campaigns that he was associated with has broken the law, the credibility of the referendum result is called in to question.  If he is found to be guilty, the clear up process might be every bit as divisive as the referendum itself - and possibly more so.  But that is not a reason to shy away from doing that.
You are of course right. But the consequences of overturning the result could be worse than going through with it. The far right would have a field day, further strengthening the inroads they have made with the marginalised by being able to point to this as further evidence that the establishment has corrupted the system against them. As I said earlier, I'm not that convinced that Banks et al were really that interested in Brexit per se, it was more about being able to carve out a space for the far right. Something they succeeded in far beyond their wildest dreams. And no, I don't mean that anyone who vote for Brexit is of the far right or motivated by that. But the whole debacle has given the extremists a platform and an impetus they could only previously dream of, thanks in large part to the dogwhistle politics of Johnson et al, the appalling bigotry of some of the rightwing tabloids and the craven "Must give them equal air time" approach of the BBC to extremists of both the far right and Islamist moulds. It's a fucking shambles.
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Sir red ken

« Reply #3762 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 19:04:42 »

Don’t really buy into the argument that the result should stand if it is found that leave propaganda was funded from illegal sources. I don’t see how you can have trust in the democratic system if that is the case (and a part of me thinks that was the Intention all along)
So when Ted took us into the EU and said they'd be no loss of sovereignty,when he knew full well there would be, he wasn't cheating?When John Major hid the facts of the Maastricht Treaty from Parliment that wasn't cheating? When Moron Brown signed the lesbian treaty without consent of the people further enslaving the uk that wasn't cheating. Maybe that wasn't cheating,maybe its just plain dictatorship. That's what communist thinking quislings prefer, the truth as lies and lies as the truth just as long as someone at the top tells them so. Funny how during all these events we never had a referendum and now we have and it didn't go the elites, way we got to have another one."the peoples vote" yeah right what a bunch of easily led saps.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3763 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 19:58:37 »

So when Ted took us into the EU and said they'd be no loss of sovereignty,when he knew full well there would be, he wasn't cheating?When John Major hid the facts of the Maastricht Treaty from Parliment that wasn't cheating? When Moron Brown signed the lesbian treaty without consent of the people further enslaving the uk that wasn't cheating. Maybe that wasn't cheating,maybe its just plain dictatorship. That's what communist thinking quislings prefer, the truth as lies and lies as the truth just as long as someone at the top tells them so. Funny how during all these events we never had a referendum and now we have and it didn't go the elites, way we got to have another one."the peoples vote" yeah right what a bunch of easily led saps.

There has been no loss of sovereignty to the EU, rather a pooling of some bits of sovereignty. It's rather like we pool our sovereignty over defence to NATO, which effectively means the US.

I'll challenge you to name one area where the EU has imposed on the UK, something that our politicians/civil service didn't want.
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Sir red ken

« Reply #3764 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:12:15 »

There has been no loss of sovereignty to the EU, rather a pooling of some bits of sovereignty. It's rather like we pool our sovereignty over defence to NATO, which effectively means the US.

I'll challenge you to name one area where the EU has imposed on the UK, something that our politicians/civil service didn't want.
Our political class and civil servant are mostly EU funded nutters, they would agree to anything by the EU, but to answer your question and its going to hurt..."More than 50,000 EU laws introduced in the UK over last 25 years highlights scale of challenge facing lawmakers following ‘Brexit" so they've imposed legal rquirements on the UK. How's that made you think again? No thought not keep speaking the rullling classes words.
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