Let's Get Political!

[horlock07]

OK, so your concern is control of immigration. I understand you're not anti-immigrant but nonetheless you are saying immigration is a key issue that made you vote leave aren't you really?

Control of immigration is something our government has mainly failed upon very little to do with the EU, the tools are there they have just completely failed to use them. Compare our method with Belgium....

[Reg Smeeton]

Nope its not immigration. Its the control element. You can stop the open door policy but keep immigration as it is - if you choose to do so.

The problem for Brexiteers is that immigration is more or less impossible to control.  For that to happen we'd need to leave the ECHR, which we helped to set up post war in 1949 as a a bulwark against fascism.

[chalkies_shorts]

OK, so your concern is control of immigration. I understand you're not anti-immigrant but nonetheless you are saying immigration is a key issue that made you vote leave aren't you really?

I'm probably not expressing it well. Immigration is a total side issue for me. It's about having more control over our own affairs. If we fuck up then we do but it will be down to us not being part of a collective. As already said immigration is fucked regardless. That ship has sailed. But by having greater control of our own destiny we could do something about it if we had a desire to do so. Currently we can't do too much as it's an open door to EU people. I personally would put immigration way down my list of priorities. If we need cheap labour I couldn't give a fuck if they're from poland, Peru or Gabon or anywhere else.
First would be to ensure we can make decisions of our own. Second would be trade deals.
I don't think it will be an easy ride but I do think it's the right thing to do. You probably won't be able to judge for several years.
My major worry with the EU is the united states of Europe that junker said will never happen.

[Combe Up]

I'm with chalk. I voted to leave because the end game for Europe is political union. Thank you all who voted the same way. We got out while we could. If that means some personal financial pain for me or my country then it will be worth it.

That and those fucking annoying French sevens with the line through them to distinguish them from their dodgy ones. Why don't they write numbers like they are on our keyboards?

[RobertT]

You do realise the French will continue to use odd sevens!  In fact, don't they have their own keyboards?  Over here they have the " and @ signs swapped as well as not having a key for Pounds.

Voting OUT because you do not want to be part of a Political Union is indeed a very good reason to vote OUT and is why it should have been more than 51%.  Voting to stay just on Economical reasoning will have led to years more petty squabbling.  Too many people stuck on Nationalism for me though, I'd clearly be IN, but I know that is not the majority view of the Country.

[donkey]

You do realise the French will continue to use odd sevens!  In fact, don't they have their own keyboards?  Over here they have the " and @ signs swapped as well as not having a key for Pounds.

Voting OUT because you do not want to be part of a Political Union is indeed a very good reason to vote OUT and is why it should have been more than 51%.  Voting to stay just on Economical reasoning will have led to years more petty squabbling.  Too many people stuck on Nationalism for me though, I'd clearly be IN, but I know that is not the majority view of the Country.

I reckon only Red Frog will have an Azerty keyboard.

[chalkies_shorts]

I actually do the French dodgy sevens to distinguish them from my dodgy ones. Does this mean I'm actually an EU collaborator

[BambooToTheFuture]

I reckon only Red Frog will have an Azerty keyboard.

I sometimes use an AZERTY on my phone keypad when typing to french friends. That's only so I can ensure when certain words need an accent or not. Also, I use dodgy sevens because being a left hander, growing up a maths teacher suggested I put a strike through my sevens and underline my ones. It stuck but I still think they did for their own purposes to ensure they could decipher my numbers. As it happens, I do like to see a dodgy seven 

[BambooToTheFuture]

I actually do the French dodgy sevens to distinguish them from my dodgy ones. Does this mean I'm actually an EU collaborator

See, we can all get along 

[Combe Up]

Seeing pictures of Best, Keegan, Dalglish etc wearing shirts bearing a dodgy seven on the back would put me at sixes and...well.

Off-piste: I like the fact that Usian Bolt will be wearing number 9.58 in a forthcoming charity match.

[Legends-Lounge]

Oh, this in out subject is a rich vein, infact it’s like being a vampire at a blood donor session.

I voted out. My father was an immigrant. So for me the issue was not focused around that subject at all as there are many, many more topics to look at that are much more important IMHO.

On a foot note two things stick in my mind as being comments from two completely diverse individuals as you could get. One a business man I knew for about four years some 15 years ago, (his company was next to mine) and the other my eldest child.
Th business man said to me and remember this is 15 years ago and I quote “Germany lost both wars but they intend to win the peace”. I now have a greater understanding of what he said and why. I must state though my aversion of the EU goes back way before then and is not a recent manifestation. My eldest who graduated the summer of the referendum from uni with a degree in both French and German language. Accused me of all manner of betrayals. So I challenged him on where he was going to find work, France or Germany? Neither, was his reply. Now his course was four years of which the third academic year was split 2/3 living in Paris and 1/3 in Düsseldorf. He said if you take the best bits if France, Germany and the U.K. and combine them you’d have in his opininion utopia so on balance he’s taken work here in the U.K.!

Out of France and Germany he’d have chosen Germany but his stronger language was French. Now the dust has settled he has a greater understanding of my position on the EU and kind of admitted that he was a little caught up in the uni, young person, Armageddon bubble v old racist levers like me apparently that pervaded at the time.

Cameron did the right thing by lancing a festering boil that was the in-out question. Many, many older people had come to realise that they were in effect lied to by the Heath and subsequent governments as to which direction the ‘Common Market’ was going. Only recently the Rome treaty which the them PM Brown signed by sneaking in a few days after all the major European leaders had signed together in a fanfare was a tightening of the EU federalist grip on everyone and everything in the ‘club’. I remember a number of politicians saying the latter treaty was just tinkering around the edges or tieing up a few loose strings, yeah my are they were.

So I put this question to you all. Which ever party you support. Do you trust your local politicians? Do you trust your national politicians? If the answer is no, then why do you trust unelected beaurocrats to decide your lives in the EU?

What’s more from my point of view the multitude of threats coming out of Barnier & Tusks mouth demonstrate how much the Europeans really like us (I have always considered that other countries like us to some degree or other but oh, they love our money much, much more) and how worried they are of us succeeding. They’re inwardly shitting themselves.

[Bogus Dave]

On your penultimate point, I don’t trust our politicians which is exactly why I want a separate, all encompassing body as well, which is no more unelected than Westminster

[Reg Smeeton]

On your penultimate point, I don’t trust our politicians which is exactly why I want a separate, all encompassing body as well, which is no more unelected than Westminster

My local MP is Mr Buckland.... I don't trust him.  He campaigned for Remain, but now is firmly in the out camp. I'd suspect his Damescene conversion has more to do with personal gain than any thought for his constituents.

[Tails]

My local MP is Mr Buckland.... I don't trust him.  He campaigned for Remain, but now is firmly in the out camp. I'd suspect his Damescene conversion has more to do with personal gain than any thought for his constituents.

That's unlike any politician!

I have John Redwood... Firmly in the out camp and has remained vocal on it despite the fact the majority of his constituents voted to remain.

[horlock07]

That's unlike any politician!

I have John Redwood... Firmly in the out camp and has remained vocal on it despite the fact the majority of his constituents voted to remain.

We have Tim Farron, campaigned to remain, constituency voted remain, continues to promote remain...

Not so keen on gay people though!