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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1995991 times)
janaage
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« Reply #840 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 16:44:11 »

I don't understand why people see Labour as unelectable. They had plans and will have drawn money but in a different way to the Tories. The deficit would have taken longer to get down but so what? Does it really matter?
Yes the coalition did inherit a deficit but that deficit would have been there anyway. It's daft to think there would have been a different picture for the nation's financial situation post the crash. Labour did a lot of good during their terms and that has been just brushed under the carpet and forgotten.

Zero hour contracts are awful for many people. These are people on low wages when they do get called into work with unreliable hours on low money when trying to run a household is hard for them. Many still have to draw benefits because of this. Many businesses using these contracts are doing very well and making huge profits. It's becoming like slave labour. A backwards step for the British workforce.

When the IFS give warnings about labours spending (which just reconfirm many people's views) you take notice. Torys have without doubt a better economical plan, and historically are more trustworthy than labour.

I think within the next four years Boris will be PM and that should be enough to see the Tories home next time around too, sommwe should have anger 10 yrs of decent economic policy, just what the nation needs.

And whilst there may be some (of the few hundred thousand) that are on zero hour contracts who don't like them, there are many of them who do like them, unfortunately there are more important issues, that effect more of the population, which is why it was a strange policy for labour to hang their hat on.
« Last Edit: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 19:32:23 by janaage » Logged
Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #841 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 17:31:41 »

When the IFS give warnings about labours spending (which just reconfirm Mandy's personal views) you take notice. Torys have without doubt a better economical plan, and historically are more trustworthy than labour.

*snigger*  the Tories have won an outright majority for the first time in 23 years.  Part of this exile to the political wasteland was caused by their disastrous economic mismanagement, ending in Black Wednesday, a massive hit to the tax payer, and hundreds of thousands plunged into debt, house repossesion and negative equity.  My then brother in law was one of them....lost his home, business, and got declared bankrupt.  

On top of this, came the usual Tory achilles heel of corruption, it tends to come in many forms....mostly snout in some sort of trough, our man Buckland showing some promise here, so will be worth keeping an eye on.  

My fave from that last Tory administration, was a fella called Stephen Milligan, bit of a rising star, found dead hanging upside down in stockings and suspenders, tied up in electric flex, apparently autoasphixiated.

Tories do tend to lose a few during their 5 year term, so probably will want to cosy up a bit with the DUPfor a bit of added security.

That last Tory admin, was brought down by the divide on Europe....seing how this will pan out of over the next 2-3 years is completely unpredictable, and an outcome where the Tories completely implode again is just as likely as your simple scenario.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #842 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 19:19:01 »

The DUP are basically Conservatives (NI Branch), so they effectively have 339 seats.  That's a majority of 28.  Salmond's language since the result has been bellicose and aggressive, and I think he's some way off with his prediction/wet dream that it's all going belly up imminently.  The EU vote is a potential pitfall for Cameron, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't manage to find a way to worm out of it.  He won't want to be John Major Mk II.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #843 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 19:27:33 »

The DUP are basically Conservatives (NI Branch), so they effectively have 339 seats.  That's a majority of 28.  Salmond's language since the result has been bellicose and aggressive, and I think he's some way off with his prediction/wet dream that it's all going belly up imminently.  The EU vote is a potential pitfall for Cameron, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't manage to find a way to worm out of it.  He won't want to be John Major Mk II.

Here's a snippet about the DUP.

Quote
They have already avoided introducing the bedroom tax and have committed to supporting the abolition of the charge for the rest of the UK. They will also support more aggressive pursuit of tax evaders. They will refuse to support increasing VAT. All of this suggests that the DUP really is every bit as willing to strike a deal with Labour as with the Tories

Economic incompetence, or sleaze, or sometimes both, has done for every Tory PM in my life time.   Macmillan, the sleaze of the Profumo and Vassal Affairs, Douglas Home, part of the same process. 

Heath, economic incompetence.....3 day week. 

Thatcher, economic incompetence, the Poll tax riots....not much fun when you are, as I was, one of many thousands faced with jail, for refusal to pay an iniquitous tax.

Major, economic incompetence and sleaze...

Cameron will do well to avoid completing the set...
« Last Edit: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 19:51:38 by Reg Smeeton » Logged
janaage
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« Reply #844 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 19:39:45 »

My fave from that last Tory administration, was a fella called Stephen Milligan, bit of a rising star, found dead hanging upside down in stockings and suspenders, tied up in electric flex, apparently autoasphixiated.

Not sure I get you. Your 'fave' from an administration was someone dying. Very classy Reg, irrespective of circumstance.
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Levi lapper

« Reply #845 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 19:51:26 »

Not sure I get you. Your 'fave' from an administration was someone dying. Very classy Reg, irrespective of circumstance.

You can't see the humour in a middle aged man wearing suspenders, asphyxiating himself with electric cable with orange peel in his mouth whilst banging one out? Bet it's a bundle of laughs round your gaff.
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janaage
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« Reply #846 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 20:03:24 »

Yeah me and the kids are always having a laugh about people dying.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #847 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 20:07:10 »

Not sure I get you. Your 'fave' from an administration was someone dying. Very classy Reg, irrespective of circumstance.

We all die sooner or later....the thing about Milligan was that at the time the Tories were trying to promote "back to basics" extolling a return to traditional family values, like thrift and hard work, military service and doffing of caps to our natural betters from the  ruling classes.

Then some Oxford educated, Old Etonian toff, ends up dead with an orange in his gob, apparently during a bout of onanism.

Major, at the time kept quiet about his boning of Edwina Currie....
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Arriba

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« Reply #848 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 20:21:23 »

Anti government protest in London after 1 day then. Gonna get messy
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Hammer

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« Reply #849 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 20:46:31 »

Anti government protest in London after 1 day then. Gonna get messy

Hopefully there will be some strategically placed snipers then. Democracy.....pffft.
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horlock07

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« Reply #850 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 21:11:14 »

Hopefully there will be some strategically placed snipers then. Democracy.....pffft.
It's becoming rather clear that to many  democracy only exists where the right people are elected.

Similar to the extensive fuss about FPTP and the lack of Green seats which seems to overlook the fact that UKIP would have won similar... I don't recall PR including a clause to allow choice between good and bad!
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Levi lapper

« Reply #851 on: Saturday, May 9, 2015, 23:58:39 »

Yeah me and the kids are always having a laugh about people dying.

My kids love the "dumb ways to die" song, you should check it out, asphyxiation and orange peel don't feature though iirc.
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Pax Romana

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« Reply #852 on: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 07:17:06 »

I don't understand why people see Labour as unelectable.

That's because you believe that everyone ought to vote Labour for the reasons that you do.  The problem is that they don't and won't.

In my lifetime:
Wilson and Blair have won general elections.
Callaghan, Foot, Kinnoch, Brown and Milliband have lost general elections.

I won't insult your intelligence by asking you if you can see the difference between the two groups because it's obvious. The only possible exception is Callaghan who was destroyed by the winter of discontent. 

The majority of people in this country want to vote Labour.  When they feel they can't trust the Labour leadership they reluctantly switch to the Tories who are adept at exploiting that fear because they know it is realistically the only way they can gain power.

People want social democracy in this country but if all they are offered is socialism or conservatism then they will choose conservatism.

Next week the media will be full of Labour politicians wringing their hands and saying that the reason that they lost the election was that they failed to appeal to the aspirational middle classes and failed to convince people that they could be trusted. No shit Sherlock. 

As a result of the self-indulgent choice of electing Milliband and his fellow travellers to 'lead' the Labour party we are now faced with 5 years of Tory rule with the only alternative (gleefully anticipated by the moronic left) that riots and Tory EU divisions will bugger up our country sufficiently to force an early election. 

Yet again the Labour party have betrayed the people of Britain and left us at the mercy of a Tory party with renewed confidence that they can pursue their self-interest.  Well done guys, good job.
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janaage
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« Reply #853 on: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 07:32:48 »

My kids love the "dumb ways to die" song, you should check it out, asphyxiation and orange peel don't feature though iirc.

I'll have a look!
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Ardiles

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« Reply #854 on: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 07:40:55 »

I'd with a lot of that.  But the 'self-indulgent choice of electing Miliband' was due to the self-indulgent choice of the unions more than any other group.  And I don't see anyone in the Labour Party taking the unions to task over this.  It needs to happen to ensure the mistake is not made again.

It's a horrible position to be in.  There is a lot of comment, like yours above, that Labour needs to move towards social democracy; and there is other comment (particularly in Scotland) that it needs to move much further over to the left.  It really is back to the drawing board.

And one more thing...charisma does matter.  I have heard a lot of people in recent months say that Miliband's lack of personal appeal shouldn't matter because his policies should do the talking; a kind of distancing from the Blair/Mandelson period when spin and image were more important.  But to pretend that personal presence/charisma is in no way important massively over-simplifies the issue.  Could you honestly see Miliband going toe-to-toe with Obama or Merkel in negotiations?  Of course not.  They would have him for dinner.  Miliband was seen as weak.  Probably the biggest single reason he was unelectable.
« Last Edit: Sunday, May 10, 2015, 07:42:39 by Ardiles » Logged
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