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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1996137 times)
pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #615 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 11:50:04 »

Nothing has changed and rightly or wrongly I don't recall there being this outcry from the left between 1997 and 2010 when Labour were on good terms with News International and such luminaries as the Sun were coming out and supporting Blair.
There was plenty from the Left, who were deeply critical of Blair, especially over the war and privatisation of the NHS, just not from New Labour. Don't confuse the two.
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horlock07

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« Reply #616 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 11:52:30 »

There was plenty from the Left, who were deeply critical of Blair, especially over the war and privatisation of the NHS, just not from New Labour. Don't confuse the two.

But hang on, weren't New Labour (are they just Labour now?) the left...  Wink
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #617 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 12:10:09 »

But hang on, weren't New Labour (are they just Labour now?) the left...  Wink
No. That was the whole point of New Labour. Don't want to get into the SNP debate but one of the (probably few) things they have got right is calling New Labour "Red Tories"
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horlock07

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« Reply #618 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 12:21:01 »

No. That was the whole point of New Labour. Don't want to get into the SNP debate but one of the (probably few) things they have got right is calling New Labour "Red Tories"

I am interested in this, considering that the present 'Labour' is led by the rump of the former Blair lead government where do you think they stand now?

I am not stirring, genuinely interested what you think as I get the impression that they are stuck in some manner of political limbo of trying to distance themselves from Blair whilst also realising that 'New' Labour made them mainstream and electable?
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #619 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 12:26:50 »

No. That was the whole point of New Labour. Don't want to get into the SNP debate but one of the (probably few) things they have got right is calling New Labour "Red Tories"

Labour currently occupies the territory of 50's/60s/ early 70's One Nation Tories.  Edward Heath would probably join the present day Labour Party...

The current SNP manifesto, doesn't look too dissimilar to Labour's 83 manifesto, which offered the abandoning of nuclear weapons.

The current Tory party ideology is the sort of laissez-faire beloved of the Liberal, William Ewart Gladstone.  It was Gladstone's opponent Disraeli, who made the first tentative moves towards One Nation Conservatism.

Fuck knows what Lib dems think...
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Arnold Corns

« Reply #620 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 13:38:38 »

Every time labour leave office they leave a cluster fcuk of finanancial chaos, which with remarkable coincidence the conservatives have to sort out when they get office and 13 years of spend, spend, spend take more than 5 years to turn around.

It is well known that poverty actually increased under labour. It is a well known fact that labour created hundreds of thousands on non jobs in local government. It is well known fact that the NHS, local and national government departments waste millions and millions every year.

I'm not driven by the politics of envy and hatred like the left seem to be. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. But let me tell you this. The rich got richer under labour. Labour wasted eye watering amounts of money over 13 years. Labour spent eye watering amounts of money over 13 years. Labour borrowed eye watering amounts of money over 13 years. Labour have saddled us tax payers and our kids with 30,40,50 year PFI debts so skewed in the favour of the filthy rich corporations and their shareholders that it beggars belief.

Don't fcuking make me laugh over the bedroom tax. You'd think the streets and gutters are filled with the elderly and disabled thrown out of their homes because they cannot pay a tax that is not a tax. I accept that there will always be exceptions to the rule. Which is a bit rich of the Labour Party who do love a tax. You do not rent a house with more rooms than you need or can afford, except in the public sector which has been starved of new housing stock and has waiting lists running into years and years. Why? Because labour did not fcuking build enough houses for their core voting support in 13 years. On top of allowing unfettered migration into this country every year running into the 100's of thousands who low and behold need........somewhere to live! They then inturn fall into the clutches of unscrupulous landlords sub letting council and housing ass property along with private landlords.

Life is a bed of roses under labour. As a working class bloke with kids I'd lick the skin off your poo rather than vote labour. It's bad enough this country is hamstrung by that lame duck bunch on the other side of the English Channel, having five years of this countries hard working people being mugged each way they turn by labour the SNP, plaid Cymru & the Lib dems. God help us.


Some people on here spout a load of bollocks. You are a complete fucking idiot. Nothing you say is backed up by fact, it's all that you read in the right wing press. This Tory government has borrowed more in the last 5 years than Labour did in 13 years but hey why let facts get in the way of reality. You have been taken in by the right wing press and all the shit and lies it tells you. When Labour came to power in 1997 the deficit was higher than the deficit in 2010 when the Tories came in and most of the deficit in 2010 was caused globally by bailing out the banks - not the government. or do you think Labour were to blame for the crashes in Europe, America and Japan.
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #621 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 14:17:38 »

Some people on here spout a load of bollocks. You are a complete fucking idiot. Nothing you say is backed up by fact, it's all that you read in the right wing press. This Tory government has borrowed more in the last 5 years than Labour did in 13 years but hey why let facts get in the way of reality. You have been taken in by the right wing press and all the shit and lies it tells you.

Maybe you've been taken in by the left-wing press? Just because you believe the opposite doesn't mean everyone else is an idiot. For each side's arguments, there's more evidence than you can shake a stick at supporting their opinion. The fact is if it vindicates a person's bias it's obviously correct.
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horlock07

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« Reply #622 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 14:43:25 »

Maybe you've been taken in by the left-wing press? Just because you believe the opposite doesn't mean everyone else is an idiot. For each side's arguments, there's more evidence than you can shake a stick at supporting their opinion. The fact is if it vindicates a person's bias it's obviously correct.

Like all politics depends who you choose to believe, Robert Peston has an interesting analysis of it at - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32549892
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kerry red

« Reply #623 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 15:03:05 »

Fuck the lot of them.

They are all in hock to various paymasters - business or the unions - but if those fucking SNP MPs end up with a say in things I predict a riot.

Should have jettisoned the sweaties while we had the chance
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Saxondale

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« Reply #624 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 15:05:37 »

Unfortunately all the politicos from down here went up to scotland like some jilted lover to beg em to stay.  And now spamface after begging them to stay is saying they're the devil.  Make your mind up tosspot.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #625 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 15:58:49 »

Fuck the lot of them.

They are all in hock to various paymasters - business or the unions - but if those fucking SNP MPs end up with a say in things I predict a riot.

Should have jettisoned the sweaties while we had the chance

As elected representatives, why should they not have a say?  I agree that they should not have a say on devolved matters (ie the well-worn West Lothian question/conundrum).  But on matters not devolved to the Scottish Assembley, surely they will have as much right as any other MP to direct policy?

Cameron needs to make his mind up.  Either he's a unionist, or he's not.  The Scots were told repeatedly - by Cameron and others - in the build up to the referendum last September that they were valued members of the union who should help shape the UK.  Like it or not, many of them are voting SNP precisely in order to make themselves heard.  So which is it?  Dave is flip-flopping big time.
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kerry red

« Reply #626 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 16:10:35 »

So why didn't the fuckers vote YES in the referendum and do us all a favour?

If they're going to return wall to wall SNP MPs they obviously didn't have the bollocks to sever ties with the old nanny.

Shaggers
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #627 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 16:21:30 »

So why didn't the fuckers vote YES in the referendum and do us all a favour?

If they're going to return wall to wall SNP MPs they obviously didn't have the bollocks to sever ties with the old nanny.

Shaggers

At the time of the referendum, there were all sorts of promises from Cameron, and to be fair it was a result of the last minute Brown led intervention, about Devo Max.  Cameron promptly reneged, and raised the flag of English nationalism for party convenience, with his attempt to shaft Labour, over having Scottish MP's.....he will now in some form or other pay the price....
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kerry red

« Reply #628 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 16:23:50 »

And so shall we
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Ardiles

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« Reply #629 on: Wednesday, May 6, 2015, 16:24:10 »

Because they're using their votes in a way that ensures they get heard at Westminster.  The population of Yes voters will resemble that for SNP voters, but does not coincide precisely.  While it looks as if 50%+ are going to vote SNP in Scotland, I would be surprised if that translated to a Yes vote if there was another Yes/No referendum held tomorrow.

The SNP have been very open about wanting to shake things up at Westminster, and a majority of Scots appear to want that as well.  For what it's worth, plenty down here are in favour of a shake up as well; but, unfortunately, we don't have an 'SNP' to vote for.  (Some would place UKIP in that category, but their campaign never got off the ground.)
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