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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1988382 times)
Arriba

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« Reply #7860 on: Wednesday, November 13, 2019, 17:52:27 »

Clearly. Although he has always been a person who does his own digging. He doesn't usually fall into the trap of "Well the <<insert MSM>> said it so it must be true.", so what is different this time compared to other years?

I think for a lot it may have something to do with the rise of the further right. Started several back with factions of EDL (still lingering Hmmm... ) and then that Nick Cumstain (can't think of his surname) who led the BNP. Who as we know were both very racism infused parties. It enabled a lot of the inner racists for some but several people didn't want to be seen as fully blown KKK style racists. This enabled the rise of UKIP into mainstream politics. Lots of closet racists making the switch* to vote for on the surface, essentially a sophisticated (sic) party, with Tory undertones. The perfect plan... When the penny dropped and UKIP were found out to be sliding back towards very far right and racist tendencies...the closet racists didn't want to be found out too and jumped ship. Genuine UKIPers who fell for the more innocent party hook of obtaining Independence from Europe, were left without a party to take seriously. Likely, many of those were sucked in and fell for the charms of the newly formed Brexit Party, only to be left high and dry as well as some also out of pocket.

Certainly, as this decade comes to a close this trend has been a continuing influence. We know about the NF and other localised "Liberation Fronts", spilling into EDL (essentially a continuation of Ultras and linked football hooliganism trying to get into politics) and then BNP. The far right has wormed it's way in and made a mark. We don't have to accept it but my fears are it will take a long time to remove. We have gone backwards, we're in danger of or in the process of slipping even further back. Where racial stereotypes become accepted talk once again. That isn't an environment I want to live in, it isn't an environment I want my niece or future children growing up in. Hate is being used by the powers that be to continually divide us, once we all see this only then can change for the good be made.

*Farage didn't agree with a BNP influence being allowed to merge with UKIP (that's the only credit he's getting there) and probably stopped the extreme right entering mainstream politics.

Good points, well made. Agree
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Arriba

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« Reply #7861 on: Wednesday, November 13, 2019, 18:54:19 »

Labour's party political broadcast was pretty shit imo. Missed opportunity me thinks...
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #7862 on: Wednesday, November 13, 2019, 19:25:37 »

It was tame, yet it wasn't a cheese fest like the BoJo one.

Just getting the contrasting MSM view on this evenings news. BBC went (unsurprisingly) soft on Boris Johnson's disastrous visit to South Yorks, refusing to use a fount of footage and only playing the less harsh stuff. They then spent the rest of the political section bashing Labour in various articles.  Switch to CH4 at 7pm and already in the first 15mins they have shown numerous pieces of footage of Boris in South Yorks, with many disgruntled residents telling him how it is. Also referencing to a piece that points to Conservatives trying to manipulate British Hindus and Muslims into voting for them.

Currently covering the uncertainty of Labour RE: Scottish Referendum. Corbyn says they won't offer a Referendum to Scotland until later into their 5yr stay but mutterings/confusion that they won't get one at all. Then switches to a face to face interview with Corbyn and a CH4 News Journo, who presses Corbyn on several issues.

Paint a picture how you like - as they say. If MSM were the only sources I read/watch/listen to, of the two media outlets above, I would say CH4 was much more balanced. Neither supporting Tory or Labour but did expose more truth in relation to BJs visit to South Yorks.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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RobertT

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« Reply #7863 on: Wednesday, November 13, 2019, 19:35:20 »

Ultimately everyone has their own reasons for voting the way that they do, however, I really cannot understand anyone on less than say £80k a year can think that a Tory government has any benefit or interest in them?

Because some people believe that using taxation to support people who are not currently employed is not the right answer to preventing people from being "poor".  They believe that providing higher financial levels of support drives people away from gainful employment.

Because some people believe they should not have to pay towards other people's failure.

Because some people believe reducing or removing Corporation tax enables companies to spend their earned capital on reinvesting in creating wealth by producing more employment etc.

Because some people believe the controls on immigration should be extreme

Because some people believe private companies will do a better job at driving efficiency and improvements in services vs. a civil service that has protected employment and does not need to innovate to stay in business.

And so on.

I'm not saying I agree with any or all of these, just that it's precisely the fact people dismiss these alternative opinions on policy that enable the more Right wing to entrench and retain support.  You don;t even have to agree with every policy, you can also keep them voting by suggesting the other side hate you and want to control you, not let you live your life the way you want to.

As an example - I believe the privatisation of many companies would get wide support (not from Reg).  Arsehole Train Operators in 2020 > BR in 1980, Telecoms now > Telecoms Nationalised, No British Leyland > British Leyland Nationalised.  There are many people who would vote Tory in fear of Labour getting hold of some of those and spending their tax money on buying them back and creating inefficient and ineffective sponges.
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horlock07

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« Reply #7864 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 10:07:45 »

Made I larf...

https://twitter.com/MrMichaelSpicer/status/1194914585989378048

In terms of the below I don't disagree, however....

Because some people believe that using taxation to support people who are not currently employed is not the right answer to preventing people from being "poor".  They believe that providing higher financial levels of support drives people away from gainful employment.

Because some people believe they should not have to pay towards other people's failure.

The vast majority of us are one redundancy from going from 'hard working', to 'benefit scrounger' - perhaps one has to experience that to be able to understand it?


Because some people believe the controls on immigration should be extreme


Not going very well though is it,



I have noted previously that I have people in my wider family who voted leave purely on the basis that it would mean fewer brown faces in their towns. Also worth bearing in mind that at least India so far have put easier visa requirements for entering the UK as a pre-requisite for trade talks.


As an example - I believe the privatisation of many companies would get wide support (not from Reg).  Arsehole Train Operators in 2020 > BR in 1980, Telecoms now > Telecoms Nationalised, No British Leyland > British Leyland Nationalised.  There are many people who would vote Tory in fear of Labour getting hold of some of those and spending their tax money on buying them back and creating inefficient and ineffective sponges.

Buggered if |I can find it now, but a surprisingly large number of the electorate seem to be in support of nationalisation, whilst much was made of the poll suggesting that nationalisation of the water  system was now broadly resisted it transpired that this was based upon ver leading questions and commissioned by the private water companies themselves. 
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Flashheart

« Reply #7865 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 11:10:06 »

Uhm!

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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #7866 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 12:21:08 »

Three cheers for the party of law and order, who have cut the criminal justice system to beyond breaking point so that convictions and prosecutions are now at a record low as recorded crimes are on the rise #BritainDeservesBetter

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crime-justice-system-criminal-record-low-new-prosecution-england-wales-statistics-a9202506.html
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horlock07

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« Reply #7867 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 12:27:47 »

Three cheers for the party of law and order, who have cut the criminal justice system to beyond breaking point so that convictions and prosecutions are now at a record low as recorded crimes are on the rise #BritainDeservesBetter

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/crime-justice-system-criminal-record-low-new-prosecution-england-wales-statistics-a9202506.html

Due to a lack of funding 36 out of the 135 Crown Court rooms are not sitting today in London. This includes 5 empty courts at the Old Bailey.
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #7868 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 14:49:58 »

Buggered if |I can find it now, but a surprisingly large number of the electorate seem to be in support of nationalisation, whilst much was made of the poll suggesting that nationalisation of the water  system was now broadly resisted it transpired that this was based upon ver leading questions and commissioned by the private water companies themselves. 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/05/19/nationalisation-vs-privatisation-public-view
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horlock07

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« Reply #7869 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 15:29:25 »


Ta muchly, I assume the 3% who want the Police and Armed Forces to be privately run are the same people? 
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #7870 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 15:55:46 »

NHS, safe in their hands:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50397856

#BritainDeservesBetter
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Flashheart

« Reply #7871 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 15:56:51 »

Yeah, but Corbyn...
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #7872 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 16:02:15 »

Johnson must be getting fed up of getting boo'ed everywhere he goes, he abandoned a planned visit to a bakery in Glastonbury today after a handful of protestors gathered outside and ran away to Wells. Bottler.

#BritainDeservesBetter
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Ardiles

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« Reply #7873 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 16:23:22 »

Johnson has a problem.  He pretty much hid from view during the first week of the campaign.  He's venturing out a little more during Week 2.  Even made it to the flooding sites - 5 days late & after everyone else had been & gone.  But he's still being shielded from contact with the public more than you would expect.

He's completely marmite.  His supporters love him...but he's loathed by many more.  And he knows that contact with the latter group isn't going to look good on the news & on social media.  So he hides.  Problem is, the campaign has another 4 weeks to run.  He's going to have to break cover at some point.
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #7874 on: Thursday, November 14, 2019, 16:28:35 »

Johnson has a problem.  He pretty much hid from view during the first week of the campaign.  He's venturing out a little more during Week 2.  Even made it to the flooding sites - 5 days late & after everyone else had been & gone.  But he's still being shielded from contact with the public more than you would expect.

He's completely marmite.  His supporters love him...but he's loathed by many more.  And he knows that contact with the latter group isn't going to look good on the news & on social media.  So he hides.  Problem is, the campaign has another 4 weeks to run.  He's going to have to break cover at some point.
They've already had to section Rees-Mogg after his Grenfell comments. Victoria Atkins has been walled up in a motorway bridge, Priti Patel couldn't backtrack on her immigration policy quick enough today and Matt Hancock ... well, he's just Matt Hancock.
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