Let's Get Political!

[pauld]

there will be those on here who pay lip service to opposing austerity but won't vote for Corbyn's Labour who have always opposed it.

This may surprise you but there are lots of people in this country who oppose austerity but think Corbyn is weak and incompetent. Labour will need to win those people over if they are to have any hope of winning an election. I wonder whether sneering at them as "paying lip service to opposing austerity" is the best way to do that?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

And there you have it

‘Weekend talks by the 27 leaders are likely to be influenced by a leaked document, seen by the Financial Times, that indicates the British government may want to diverge away from the bloc's rules on workers' rights and environmental protections after Brexit.

There are fears by some EU nations, especially Germany, that Mr Johnson is preparing to reform Britain into "Singapore-on-Thames" - a low-tax, lightly regulated economy on the edge of Europe - once it has left.’

Pity it’s Corbyn that’s tasked with pushing back against it.

[Ardiles]

This sums it up well for me.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/25/labour-jeremy-corbyn-party-leader-brexit-boris-johnson

It's all very depressing.  Much as I loathe just about everything he stands for, I can see that Johnson will take Corbyn apart at a GE.  Corbyn will retreat back in to the shadows and Johnson will get until 2025 to turn this country (or England & Wales) in to a low wage sweat shop.

Happy Saturday, everyone.

[pauld]

This sums it up well for me.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/25/labour-jeremy-corbyn-party-leader-brexit-boris-johnson

It's all very depressing.  Much as I loathe just about everything he stands for, I can see that Johnson will take Corbyn apart at a GE.  Corbyn will retreat back in to the shadows and Johnson will get until 2025 to turn this country (or England & Wales) in to a low wage sweat shop.

Happy Saturday, everyone.

Indeed. Some on here could do well to understand this paragraph in particular so they understand why Labour will lose the next election under Corbyn even against a historically shite government:

"To be concise, Johnson yearns for an election because the remain vote is divided – and that is because millions of remainers have looked at Corbyn’s Labour and decided they need to look elsewhere. Yet the curious thing about British politics just now is that, among Labour supporters, this is barely mentioned in public. To raise it is to bring social media ordure down upon on your head, as if it were improper or even sacrilegious to speak of such things – even though it is truly extraordinary that the party of opposition is not 20 points ahead of a government in office for nine years, so bitterly divided it has expelled 21 of its own MPs, including two former chancellors, and which has failed to deliver on its central promise. Such a government should be bracing itself for a wipeout. Instead, blessed by a record-breakingly weak opposition, it is preparing to win another term."

[Reg Smeeton]

Indeed. Some on here could do well to understand this paragraph in particular so they understand why Labour will lose the next election under Corbyn even against a historically shite government:

"To be concise, Johnson yearns for an election because the remain vote is divided – and that is because millions of remainers have looked at Corbyn’s Labour and decided they need to look elsewhere. Yet the curious thing about British politics just now is that, among Labour supporters, this is barely mentioned in public. To raise it is to bring social media ordure down upon on your head, as if it were improper or even sacrilegious to speak of such things – even though it is truly extraordinary that the party of opposition is not 20 points ahead of a government in office for nine years, so bitterly divided it has expelled 21 of its own MPs, including two former chancellors, and which has failed to deliver on its central promise. Such a government should be bracing itself for a wipeout. Instead, blessed by a record-breakingly weak opposition, it is preparing to win another term."

Freedland has his reasons for always trying to undermine Corbyn and Labour.

Labour will lose the next election because as it stands the country has lurched to the right in the face of pressing issues.

The question of how far is moot. 

Personally I'll be looking closely at how Labour's new thinking on the climate emergency looks.....

[pauld]

Freedland has his reasons for always trying to undermine Corbyn and Labour.

Labour will lose the next election because as it stands the country has lurched to the right in the face of pressing issues.

Labour will lose the next election because Corbyn has zero credibility outside the cult and instead of trying to win over the more moderate or undecided voters they will need to win an election, the cult instead stick their heads in the sand and denounce anyone who isn't fully signed up as right wingers, Blairites, hypocrites etc.

there will be those on here who pay lip service to opposing austerity but won't vote for Corbyn's Labour who have always opposed it.

[donkey]

We had an election in 2017 for a fixed five year term.  We knew what we were voting for.  Honour the general election result.  No GE until 2022.

If anything as the referendum was earlier, we should have another one of those first...

[Reg Smeeton]

Labour will lose the next election because Corbyn has zero credibility outside the cult and instead of trying to win over the more moderate or undecided voters they will need to win an election, the cult instead stick their heads in the sand and denounce anyone who isn't fully signed up as right wingers, Blairites, hypocrites etc.

I don't agree with trying to water down your thinking in order to accommodate the floating voter, present your policies and let people decide what's in their best interest.

It helps of course if the policies are not based on lies like the Leave campaign in the ref.

[pauld]

I don't agree with trying to water down your thinking in order to accommodate the floating voter, present your policies and let people decide what's in their best interest.

It helps of course if the policies are not based on lies like the Leave campaign in the ref.

My point wasn't really about the policies though, it was and always has been that Corbyn is a liability. He is weak, incompetent and divisive, much like his opposite number tbf, and in his favour at least he isn't a habitual liar. To some extent, he's almost too honest. However, with him in charge Labour will not win an election because outside of the true believers he is widely derided and mistrusted. To win an election, Labour don't necessarily need to water down their thinking, they just need to recognise he is their biggest liability and get rid of him.

[Reg Smeeton]

My point wasn't really about the policies though, it was and always has been that Corbyn is a liability. He is weak, incompetent and divisive, much like his opposite number tbf, and in his favour at least he isn't a habitual liar. To some extent, he's almost too honest. However, with him in charge Labour will not win an election because outside of the true believers he is widely derided and mistrusted. To win an election, Labour don't necessarily need to water down their thinking, they just need to recognise he is their biggest liability and get rid of him.

It would make fuck all difference the vested interests will always do their bit to undermine a potential Labour government. Ed Milliband would have made a perfectly good PM, certainly the country wouldn't be in its current mess, had he become PM in 2015 but because his father was a Marxist academic, he was Red Ed, hence dangerous.  Of course complete bullshit, but people believe this shit

[Red Frog]

Frankly if your country votes in a fourth successive Tory government, it deserves all it has coming to it.

Like they say, there ain’t no cure for stupid.

[adje]

It would make fuck all difference the vested interests will always do their bit to undermine a potential Labour government. Ed Milliband would have made a perfectly good PM, certainly the country wouldn't be in its current mess, had he become PM in 2015 but because his father was a Marxist academic, he was Red Ed, hence dangerous.  Of course complete bullshit, but people believe this shit

So so true

[REDBUCK]

It would make fuck all difference the vested interests will always do their bit to undermine a potential Labour government. Ed Milliband would have made a perfectly good PM, certainly the country wouldn't be in its current mess, had he become PM in 2015 but because his father was a Marxist academic, he was Red Ed, hence dangerous.  Of course complete bullshit, but people believe this shit

It isn't always someone else's fault though is it?

[RedRag]

I don't agree with trying to water down your thinking in order to accommodate the floating voter, present your policies and let people decide what's in their best interest.

It helps of course if the policies are not based on lies like the Leave campaign in the ref.

We can all believe what we like but a charismatic leader will beat an uncharismatic one.  The reason Corbyn surprised in 2017 was because May was worse.  So wooden, as well as having unwisely (if laudably in some ways) put a dementia tax in her manifesto.  Johnson will be neither wooden nor promise any “hard” policies.  They will be quietly applied after an election should the Cons secure sufficient support.

By all means hold with your beliefs of openness undiluted but that will not foreseeably, openly showcase an election winning party with  FPTP.  IMO, of course.  

[Arriba]

My point wasn't really about the policies though, it was and always has been that Corbyn is a liability. He is weak, incompetent and divisive, much like his opposite number tbf, and in his favour at least he isn't a habitual liar. To some extent, he's almost too honest. However, with him in charge Labour will not win an election because outside of the true believers he is widely derided and mistrusted. To win an election, Labour don't necessarily need to water down their thinking, they just need to recognise he is their biggest liability and get rid of him.

The fact that a rational thinker like yourself has this opinion shows why Corbyn has no chance. I completely disagree that he is "weak, incompetent and divisive" but you are not alone in that view. For that reason he will never be pm. Boris knows this, hence why he wants an election asap. He'll get enough to form a dirty coalition and the status quo will continue. We're fucked, both globally and nationally.