Let's Get Political!

[Ardiles]

When you step back from it all, it really is quite astonishing how a seemingly stable, seemingly dependable state such as the UK can have spiralled out of control in the space of 3 or 4 short years.  It's quite frightening, actually.  I try to put myself in the shoes of a historian looking at this period in 2070 or 2080.  What will they make of it?

It's likely that they will conclude that early 21st century UK was complacent.  While there were differences of thought, it believed that its fundamentals - its institutions, independence of the judiciary, rule of law etc. - were sound.  But the house, in retrospect, was built on sand.  Parallels with the financial crisis a decade earlier, maybe...not seeing the approaching whirlwind until it was all too late.  A systemic/collective failure to see the approaching storm.  Our constitution, clearly, wasn't up to it.  Our institutions did not know how to react when something as simple as the result of a binary referendum was thrown in to the mix.  Are we a parliamentary democracy, or not?  Which takes precedence - parliament, or a referendum result?  Why did no-one call this out?  Why was no-one talking to David Cameron about this in 2014 & 2015?

Hearing the passion of advocates on both sides of the Brexit debate (leaving aside my own bias/opinion for a moment), I'm quite certain that this is going to fester for decades...and quite possibly, for the rest of my lifetime.  And I'm really quite pessimistic about the future of this place (in what ever form it takes in the years ahead) as a result.

[Reg Smeeton]

When you step back from it all, it really is quite astonishing how a seemingly stable, seemingly dependable state such as the UK can have spiralled out of control in the space of 3 or 4 short years.  It's quite frightening, actually.  I try to put myself in the shoes of a historian looking at this period in 2070 or 2080.  What will they make of it?

It's likely that they will conclude that early 21st century UK was complacent. 

Given that the overriding issue is climate change, and that top scientists gave a prognosis a while back of 12 years before it becomes irreversible, it's questionable what if anything might be around in 2080.

It is against this background that history will judge.... fiddling while Rome burned.  The complacency is why at a time Coirbyn has got Parliament to declare a climate emergency, they're not talking about what's to be done, rather than being prorogued.

[RedRag]

She has either been massively quoted out of context or more likely has just won the prize for the most bizarre comment of the week which is saying something in these times.

The really depressing thing, though, is the general underlying tone of the article which is that so many people of different political persuasions agree that this current government needs to go, but no-one seems prepared to compromise or make a personal sacrifice in order to create a coalition to offer to the country as a viable alternative.

Emma Lewd-Fcuk is Labour MP for South Shields.  That explains her views.  imo.

[horlock07]

Emma Lewd-Fcuk is Labour MP for South Shields.  That explains her views.  imo.

Not 100% sure you can blame South Shields for this, she is an incredibly objectionable MP who seems to spend most of her time falling out with her constituents and the local media.

[RedRag]

Happy to take on board your qualification as you doubtless know more about her.

[horlock07]

Happy to take on board your qualification as you doubtless know more about her.

To be honest I know little about her, however I have a mate who lives in her constituency so just asked him!

[Reg Smeeton]

  Here's some Lib Dem stuff on climate change.... at least it's something.

  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/14/lib-dems-set-out-radical-agenda-for-tackling-climate-emergency

[BambooToTheFuture]

  Here's some Lib Dem stuff on climate change.... at least it's something.

  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/14/lib-dems-set-out-radical-agenda-for-tackling-climate-emergency

Could this mean a step nearer towards a Green-Lib "Unite to Remain" type of alliance, as has been banded around several times.

The impending, inevitable GE at some point will certainly be an interesting time!

[Outletred]

Could this mean a step nearer towards a Green-Lib "Unite to Remain" type of alliance, as has been banded around several times.

The impending, inevitable GE at some point will certainly be an interesting time!

Oh how very democratic!

I voted remain but the result must be implemented. If it was reversed beforehand by another vote that wouldn’t be accepted either and rightly so

[Batch]

wouldn't be acceptable to you. fine by me.

A party unilaterally revoking article 50 is wrong though. But a lib dem/green alliance won't get anywhere near power

[pauld]

I voted remain but the result must be implemented. If it was reversed beforehand by another vote that wouldn’t be accepted either and rightly so

That's funny because immediately after the result was in you said you thought it was the right decision

The people have spoken we all need to move on.

We need the best politicians with the highest economic competence and the best lawyers/negotiators to steer us through.

I do believe the decision made by the electorate is the right one, but we all need to pull together now however people may have voted. These farcical calls for a 2nd vote are an embarrassment as are these ridiculous petitions

[BambooToTheFuture]

That's funny because immediately after the result was in you said you thought it was the right decision

Ha. i write some dross on here at times but that is some proper "pants down" stuff. I'll drink to that! 

[GosportNob]

I've kept a low profile on this thread recently as I voted remain but believe we should implement the referendum result democratically.

However without a written constitution I believe that the impartiality of the speaker is the single most important element of our parliamentary democracy. The bias of Mr Bercow is obvious and has critical implications not just for Brexit but for our democracy going forward


When the majority of mp's disagree with the electorate/governing party in the future they will be able to use this as precedent and "take over parliament " and frustrate the will of the people.

Is our political system dead or just in it's death throes? God help us if magic grandpa gets the keys to number ten@

[RedRag]

….especially if Magic Grandpa were to lie about his motives to the Queen and accordingly have her use her prerogative powers to prorogue Parliament.

And then were Magic Grandpa to refuse to commit to obeying any laws passed by Parliament before prorogation.  

That would be really worrying.    Although logically acceptable to Johnson's fanbois.

PS  Rob, to the extent Bercow's actions may be more than just biased in favour of Parliament but actually biased in favour of his political views, then I would, tbf, also share your concerns there.

[Reg Smeeton]

I've kept a low profile on this thread recently as I voted remain but believe we should implement the referendum result democratically.

Your low profile is probably due to previously saying you voted leave and then remain, in order to suit whatever crap you're coming up with.