Let's Get Political!

[horlock07]

Agreed, I do think its a ruse to flush out a no confidence vote, the Tories are looking to go to the country with No deal on the agenda, but its a risk, if parliament has no confidence in Boris and if it can gain parliaments confidence in a unity government then it will have backfired on Boris big time. Personally i hope this is what happens if purely to show that is what happens when trying to bypass democracy.

Indeed

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/08/what-boris-johnsons-plan-prorogue-parliament-really-means

[Batch]

suspend democracy. That's what it amounts to.

Disgraceful.

[pauld]

Whichever side of the fence you sit on, you should agree that it's a dangerous precedent to have a PM suspend parliament because things are not going their way.

Exactly, this isn't a left/right issue, this is a constitutional democracy issue. And given they've dragged the Queen into it, it should be every bit as alarming to royalists as it is to democrats

[horlock07]

Exactly, this isn't a left/right issue, this is a constitutional democracy issue. And given they've dragged the Queen into it, it should be every bit as alarming to royalists as it is to democrats

I imagine the Queen has enough to worry about at the moment with the alleged actions of her second son!

[Red Frog]

Whatever else you do, and whatever you think of the effect of petitions, you could start by joining the 100K+ in the last hour who've at least registered their protest at the proroguing of parliament.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157?fbclid=IwAR3KwkFJX3TYCmd9gV7I74jIhgcw1fBPTATj7JRfEu57-fl8rpJAA38LYw4

[pauld]

Whatever else you do, and whatever you think of the effect of petitions, you could start by joining the 100K+ in the last hour who've at least registered their protest at the proroguing of parliament.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157?fbclid=IwAR3KwkFJX3TYCmd9gV7I74jIhgcw1fBPTATj7JRfEu57-fl8rpJAA38LYw4

And use the link you get when you have signed it to email your MP, which will have (marginally) more effect

[Sir red ken]

Exactly, this isn't a left/right issue, this is a constitutional democracy issue. And given they've dragged the Queen into it, it should be every bit as alarming to royalists as it is to democrats

Its not a left or right issue its respecting the peoples vote 2016 and not allowing the country to be locked into the eu.
There are people in parliment who don't represent the UK but their own self interest. The speaker is pro eu and so not fit for purpose and no one said a word when John Major prorogued parliment, its OK for remianers but not leavers! Funny how when it comes to leaving the eu we have to allow parliment every block available. What we can't do is leave. The very thing the people voted for. Now that's not how democracy works.

[horlock07]

Its not a left or right issue its respecting the peoples vote 2016 and not allowing the country to be locked into the eu.
There are people in parliment who don't represent the UK but their own self interest. The speaker is pro eu and so not fit for purpose and no one said a word when John Major prorogued parliment, its OK for remianers but not leavers! Funny how when it comes to leaving the eu we have to allow parliment every block available. What we can't do is leave. The very thing the people voted for. Now that's not how democracy works.

At least we know you are an Express reader as they seem to be the only outlet flogging this desperate line, FWIW Major called an election.

[Nemo]

At least we know you are an Express reader as they seem to be the only outlet flogging this desperate line, FWIW Major called an election.

Pretty sure Johnson is going to call an election, he's just baiting all the other parties (primarily Labour) into coming out as fully anti no-deal (and thus being able to cast them as anti-Brexit all round) first. The tricky thing for them is that it's a trap they basically can't not fall into as if they didn't take the bait, we'd be locked into leaving.

Might be giving Johnson (and by extension Cummings) more credit than they deserve, but find it hard to see a pathway where we don't end up with an election where the Tories mop up the Brexit party vote (probably buying off Farage with a peerage or the American ambassadors job) and the remain side is split every which way.

Not exactly good for the soul, this speculation.

[Saxondale]

Stopping people having the right to democracy is also not how democracy works.  It's dictatorship by an unelected prime minister.

[horlock07]

So to recap the background to all this, which on first glance appears little more than the first step towards a right wing coup!

A propped up government that got 42.4% in the GE;
With a new leader elected by below 1% of the UK electorate;
Delivering a policy possibly voted for by 37% of the electorate;
That subsequent polling has shown a majority do not want to go through!

As noted by Stephen Bush of the NS....

'What I think the bigger development today is the government moving forward the date of reckoning. Why? Because it means that if MPs do get their act together then an election can be held before the executive seeks a further extension to the Article 50 process. While it’s hard to see a non-fraught path to re-election for the Conservative party that doesn’t involve travelling backwards in time and passing the Withdrawal Agreement into law in January, it seems to me that they essentially have three options:

1. Hold an election after having gone back on their promise to leave by 31 October come what may – an election in which they will not only lose the voters they have written off to the Liberal Democrats in England and Wales and the SNP in Scotland, but will also lose votes to the Brexit party and struggle to win votes from Labour in small towns to compensate.

2.Hold an election having gone for a no-deal Brexit, whether during or immediately before a general election. Something that a lot of people are neglecting is that you don’t even have to posit that no-deal Brexit is as bad as the central forecasts. Even a significantly better than expected no-deal Brexit is potentially an election-breaking event.

3.Hold an election before 31 October and hope that a message of “don’t let Parliament stop Brexit” allows you to get a majority.

None are backdrops you’d choose if fighting for a fourth term in office but 3 is the least fraught. The government’s problem is that it can’t control which of those outcomes it gets – but it is striking that it has picked a course of action that maximises the prospects of 3.'

Whilst many people seem to be trying to spin this as the clever action of a government in control, it instead has all the signs of a desperate measure to at best get Brexit passed and damn the consequences for the Tory Party for generations to come. Ultimately what happens over the comings weeks will depend a lot on the actions of Bercow, his statement today suggests that he will continue be a thorn in the side of a government trying to trash our democracy, which will be fun to watch.

[horlock07]

Pretty sure Johnson is going to call an election, he's just baiting all the other parties (primarily Labour) into coming out as fully anti no-deal (and thus being able to cast them as anti-Brexit all round) first. The tricky thing for them is that it's a trap they basically can't not fall into as if they didn't take the bait, we'd be locked into leaving.

Might be giving Johnson (and by extension Cummings) more credit than they deserve, but find it hard to see a pathway where we don't end up with an election where the Tories mop up the Brexit party vote (probably buying off Farage with a peerage or the American ambassadors job) and the remain side is split every which way.

Not exactly good for the soul, this speculation.

The interesting thing is going to be the infamous 'Labour brexit vote in Northern towns', how are they going to vote come and election, is leaving the EU so important to them to hold their noses and vote for the Tories led by an Eton toff or will they shy away and stay at home?

[pauld]

Pretty sure Johnson is going to call an election, he's just baiting all the other parties (primarily Labour) into coming out as fully anti no-deal (and thus being able to cast them as anti-Brexit all round) first. The tricky thing for them is that it's a trap they basically can't not fall into as if they didn't take the bait, we'd be locked into leaving.

Might be giving Johnson (and by extension Cummings) more credit than they deserve, but find it hard to see a pathway where we don't end up with an election where the Tories mop up the Brexit party vote (probably buying off Farage with a peerage or the American ambassadors job) and the remain side is split every which way.

Not exactly good for the soul, this speculation.

I think you're spot on with all of that. Farage doesn't want power per se, he likes being the demagogue on the sidelines, lapping up the attention and making a packet out of playing the outsider.

[Red Frog]

Whilst many people seem to be trying to spin this as the clever action of a government in control, it instead has all the signs of a desperate measure to at best get Brexit passed and damn the consequences for the Tory Party for generations to come. Ultimately what happens over the comings weeks will depend a lot on the actions of Bercow, his statement today suggests that he will continue be a thorn in the side of a government trying to trash our democracy, which will be fun to watch.

Freudian moment? That sounds like what this period may subsequently be known as.

[mystical_goat]

The very thing the people voted for. Now that's not how democracy works.

People voted for better or more independent circumstances, a clean break; not the shitshow of a deal negotiated by May/tweaked by Johnson.

Since you are in favour of democracy and respecting votes, you'll be happy to endorse a binding public vote on the final deal/no deal outcome?

Nobody can seriously suggest that in the vote held 3 years ago people understood the effects of Brexit anywhere near as well as they do now. Understanding has improved and opinions have changed.