Let's Get Political!

[pauld]

What a vile rabble the cabinet are. Previously sacked and habitual liars. Self proclaimed failures who quit before are now back in the cabinet. You couldn't make this shit up. As for brown nosed Buckland. He'll get the boot at the next GE as Sarah Church is a much better option and the town has gone to shit in recent years on under Tory rule. Can't see the locals being so stupid to re-elect such a useless self serving buffoon again

TBF I think there are a lot of people who accept the Tories are an absolute shower but who are so terrified of Corbyn and allies they'd vote for pretty much anyone to keep them out. I think we see some of that on here, with GosportRob et al who view politics entirely through the prism of "Stop Corbyn"

[RedRag]

Back on topic, the best thing about the new cabinet/PM combo is they are packed full of Brexiteers. Let's see what they can come up with now. No excuses, no blaming the remoaners. Brexiteers in charge of Brexit. Should be fun.

One possible scenario (likely, even) is that Boris, with tabloid and DT support, will blame


1.  the lack of a deal inside effectively 2 months on the EU (which has been negotiating already for > 2 years) and
2.  then blame "Marxist" Corbyn and "anti-democrats" within his party for blocking Brexit (in fact a calamitous No Deal)

and then

3.  call an election.

Precipice avoided for now, cancerous uncertainty prolonged.

[RedRag]

...Corbyn et al have made no attempt to deny their desire to become the first Marxist government of the UK...

I am, in the main, contemptuous of magic grandpa but I wonder if you have any quotes and sources for that assertion Gosport? 

[pauld]

One possible scenario (likely, even) is that Boris, with tabloid and DT support, will blame


1.  the lack of a deal inside effectively 2 months on the EU (which has been negotiating already for > 2 years) and
2.  then blame "Marxist" Corbyn and "anti-democrats" within his party for blocking Brexit (in fact a calamitous No Deal)

and then

3.  call an election.

Precipice avoided for now, cancerous uncertainty prolonged.

Looking at his Cabinet, that's exactly the strategy he's gone for. That's a Cabinet built to look good for a campaign, not to govern.

[horlock07]

One possible scenario (likely, even) is that Boris, with tabloid and DT support, will blame


1.  the lack of a deal inside effectively 2 months on the EU (which has been negotiating already for > 2 years) and
2.  then blame "Marxist" Corbyn and "anti-democrats" within his party for blocking Brexit (in fact a calamitous No Deal)

and then

3.  call an election.

Precipice avoided for now, cancerous uncertainty prolonged.

The blame game was already clear in yesterdays speech.

He is convinced we can do a deal without the anti-democratic backstop, however there is a possibility that “Brussels won’t budge” and we will be “forced to come out without a deal.” - so the blame is already been lined up for pesky johnny foreigner for not doing our bidding;

He branded critics of Brexit and the Brexit process as people who "bet against Britain", so anyone against the government and project is against the country, from page 1 of the fascists playbook that one. Plus in terms of who bet against Britain, was that not all his mates in the Hedgefunds who have made money as Brexit has been driving sterling down?

"To those who say we can't be ready, I say do not underestimate this country", so once again you criticise me or my party you are actually a traitor who is criticising your country.

So actually nothing unexpected, he pledged a lot none of which will happen but as Trump has proven that doesn't really matter to the faithful.

I still think we won't have an election till its forced upon him, blindingly obvious that they don't think they can win one, and likewise Corbyns prevarication about having a vote of no confidence is a pretty sure sign that they don't think they can win one.

All in all we have two parties are the extremities of left and right who know they cannot win and election and we are stuck with them for now!

[Arriba]

TBF I think there are a lot of people who accept the Tories are an absolute shower but who are so terrified of Corbyn and allies they'd vote for pretty much anyone to keep them out. I think we see some of that on here, with GosportRob et al who view politics entirely through the prism of "Stop Corbyn"

Well the public are being brainwashed daily by the "Corbyn is a danger" line. Every time a Tory is interviewed they trot that out. You can tell the emails/orders have been flying about in that regard. Tell the people the same thing over and over and they'll believe it I suppose. More reason why Labour need a new leader to take the Tories on. The smears have worked where Corbyn is concerned

[Ardiles]

https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1154352034419740672

'Dom Cummings’ strategy is clear: to reunite the Leave vote, see off the Brexit Party and win an election against a Remain vote divided between Labour, the LibDems and the SNP//Plaid Cymru/Greens. If Labour MPs don’t get rid of Corbyn, it will probably work.'

This is what I was alluding to yesterday, and it terrifies me.

I can see the Brexit Party and the Tories co-ordinating far better with each other in terms of electoral agreements than Labour (led by a weakened Corbyn) & the Lib Dems (who can't stand Corbyn and are themselves led by someone who's been in the job 5 mins and still learning the ropes).  I really do worry about Labour and the Lib Dems screwing up if it were to come to another election.

[Batch]

Well the public are being brainwashed daily by the "Corbyn is a danger" line. Every time a Tory is interviewed they trot that out. You can tell the emails/orders have been flying about in that regard. Tell the people the same thing over and over and they'll believe it I suppose. More reason why Labour need a new leader to take the Tories on. The smears have worked where Corbyn is concerned

Make him a toxic brand in time for the GE.

With Labours fence sitting on Brexit, and a hard right Tory party heading off Ferage it could actually work too

edit: See Nick Boles knows.

[Arriba]

In fairness Swindon had a leave majority. So "we" deserve it.

Church closed the gap on him last time. I think she can topple him next time around.

[Batch]

Church closed the gap on him last time. I think she can topple him next time around.

We'll have to see.

Labour played a blinder (from where they started) last time. But I think she'll pay the price for Corbyn's ineffectiveness/dithering.

[horlock07]

https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1154352034419740672

'Dom Cummings’ strategy is clear: to reunite the Leave vote, see off the Brexit Party and win an election against a Remain vote divided between Labour, the LibDems and the SNP//Plaid Cymru/Greens. If Labour MPs don’t get rid of Corbyn, it will probably work.'

This is what I was alluding to yesterday, and it terrifies me.

The replies to that tweet say it all really, blind bullshit from all sides.

However I do think that the only remain voters who might vote Labour are those who would vote Labour if you put a red rosette on a donkey, the rest have fucked him right off.

Ian Dunts live tweeting thread of RM's and Johnson speeches has some thoughts about this at the end...

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1154323679297318912

[mystical_goat]

Well the public are being brainwashed daily by the "Corbyn is a danger" line. Every time a Tory is interviewed they trot that out. You can tell the emails/orders have been flying about in that regard. Tell the people the same thing over and over and they'll believe it I suppose. More reason why Labour need a new leader to take the Tories on. The smears have worked where Corbyn is concerned

I fear that your last sentence could be true - the media and Tory politicians (same thing in almost all cases) have done a good job of muddying his water.

But I'm only basing that on the quantity of dirt they throw at him and not really considering whether it actually sticks. It's been such a steady onslaught, with some nice peaks, that some of it has to now. In a small number of cases the obvious negativity and agenda against him have alerted people to him and caused them to properly research his record and eventually become supporters of his ideals, and in more cases it's hardened existing support.

The recent local elections were poor/okay for him/Labour from what I recall, but were very topical and specific at the time. A general election would be interesting most of all because it could reveal a large disparity between the media and the public opinion.

[pauld]

I fear that your last sentence could be true - the media and Tory politicians (same thing in almost all cases) have done a good job of muddying his water.

But I'm only basing that on the quantity of dirt they throw at him and not really considering whether it actually sticks. It's been such a steady onslaught, with some nice peaks, that some of it has to now. In a small number of cases the obvious negativity and agenda against him have alerted people to him and caused them to properly research his record and eventually become supporters of his ideals, and in more cases it's hardened existing support.

The recent local elections were poor/okay for him/Labour from what I recall, but were very topical and specific at the time. A general election would be interesting most of all because it could reveal a large disparity between the media and the public opinion.

I think that was true of the last election, where Corbyn/Labour rose above the smears and so largely confounded media expectations in results. Since then, he has largely wasted that momentum (no pun intended) by dithering over Brexit and equivocating over anti-Semitism. He can't blame the smears any more, they're still there of course they are, any Labour leader will have to deal with that from a largely hostile right wing press, but the way Labour have fallen back from their election position is largely of Corbyn's own making.

[horlock07]

The recent local elections were poor/okay for him/Labour from what I recall,

The most recent locals were shite for Labour, especially when you consider where they came in the electoral cycles, they lost 6 Councils and 84 councillors which for a party trying to get elected to do that badly when the ruling party got decimated was frankly embarrassing for them.

FWIW I don't think just changing the leader will achieve a great deal if the power behind the throne stays in post, Corbyn is just a handy figurehead.

[jayohaitchenn]

However I do think that the only remain voters who might vote Labour are those who would vote Labour if you put a red rosette on a donkey, the rest have fucked him right off.

Total bollocks. I live in South Swindon, it's the Torys or Labour. No one else has a chance of winning. FPtP means I have to vote Labour because I hate the Torys.