Let's Get Political!

[horlock07]

Good job BBC, good work!

https://twitter.com/iCrowby/status/1153733937027518466

[Flashheart]

May suggesting that she knows when to stand down so Corybn should as well.

She should have been gone fucking ages ago, the deluded old bat.

[pauld]

May suggesting that she knows when to stand down so Corybn should as well.

She should have been gone fucking ages ago, the deluded old bat.

So should he

[Arriba]

So should he

Why?
Not trying to trip you or Cowley up. I'm interested to know why people form their opinion of Jeremy Corbyn.

[pauld]

Why?
Not trying to trip you or Cowley up. I'm interested to know why people form their opinion of Jeremy Corbyn.

I think I come at it from a rather different direction from Cowley

For me because he has proven himself completely ineffective as a leader across a range of issues, but two in particular:
1) Any halfway competent opposition would have torn this government apart by now. Instead Labour's poll rating has dropped. He squandered the post-Brexit bounce with his faffing and indecision.
2) The anti-Semitism issue has been appallingly badly handled, mainly because he can't see beyond the prejudices of his allies and he is (as on so many issues) a hostage to his own student posturings.

Labour's policies under Corbyn are considerably more moderate than the press would have you believe but whatever you think of them is irrelevant because he is the major stumbling block to delivering them.

For a healthy democracy to function effectively, it needs an effective government and an effective opposition to hold the govt to account. We have neither and Corbyn carries a large part of the blame for that. He's fucking useless, get rid.

[Flashheart]

So should he

Not the point, Paul.

[Arriba]

I think I come at it from a rather different direction from Cowley

For me because he has proven himself completely ineffective as a leader across a range of issues, but two in particular:
1) Any halfway competent opposition would have torn this government apart by now. Instead Labour's poll rating has dropped. He squandered the post-Brexit bounce with his faffing and indecision.
2) The anti-Semitism issue has been appallingly badly handled, mainly because he can't see beyond the prejudices of his allies and he is (as on so many issues) a hostage to his own student posturings.

Labour's policies under Corbyn are considerably more moderate than the press would have you believe but whatever you think of them is irrelevant because he is the major stumbling block to delivering them.

For a healthy democracy to function effectively, it needs an effective government and an effective opposition to hold the govt to account. We have neither and Corbyn carries a large part of the blame for that. He's fucking useless, get rid.

Ha. Yes I appreciate your angle is completely different.
Thanks for answering and backing your opinions up with reason. I think that should be expected of anyone making any point on any topic. If not their points are worthless.
Tbf you always do this.

I agree that he should stand aside but not entirely for the same reasons as you. I do because I think he is on a hiding to nothing due to the relentless smear campaign against him. And with the crux of your first point really, that the Tories should be there for the taking. I don't see him being able to do this and the removal of what is a terrible government is a matter of urgency. For the good of the Labour party and nation he should step aside.

[horlock07]

So should he

I see many of the faithful cultists have been getting all a lather about the fact that this is now the third Tory PM Corbyn has faced and suggesting that he has in some way seen them off.

Rather ignores the plain and simple fact that he has never won an election against any of them.

I was prepared to listen to Corbyn when he was elected as it was claimed he offered something different, however it has become clear that his politics are as ideologically driven and as ruthless as the Tories and at least you expect them to be unpleasant to the majority of the population.

He and his acolytes still haven't learnt the lesson that was dealt to Milliband (E), its all very well appealing to your supporters, they are not the votes you need to get its the floating electorate you are after! Its all very well people wittering on about labours c.500k membership, but thats barely the population of 3 big constituencies and means feck all in the scheme of things!

[horlock07]

Ha. Yes I appreciate your angle is completely different.
Thanks for answering and backing your opinions up with reason. I think that should be expected of anyone making any point on any topic. If not their points are worthless.
Tbf you always do this.

Jesus Christ, get a room! 

I agree that he should stand aside but not entirely for the same reasons as you. I do because I think he is on a hiding to nothing due to the relentless smear campaign against him. And with the crux of your first point really, that the Tories should be there for the taking. I don't see him being able to do this and the removal of what is a terrible government is a matter of urgency. For the good of the Labour party and nation he should step aside.

Whilst the smearing might be relentless I think it goes deeper than that, I am not aware of any of my friends being dyed in the wool to any party, however without exception Corbyn has lost us all now for the reasons that the Wiltshire scouser mentions, in addition he appears to have alienated the young with his prevarication about Brexit and instead they just seem to feel duped.

Add into the mix the whole anti-antisemitism stuff (which has been reported dreadfully, but is pretty dreadful anyway), and its as toxic in electoral terms as the Tories should be! Problem is Corbyn is not the power he is just a useful idiot to front the project and too many people have too much invested in him and depend on him to retain their power to let him step down.

Plus the anointed one seems to be Rebecca Long-Bailey so even if Corbyn went I don't see any upturn in fortunes as she is equally useless.

[pauld]

Not the point, Paul.

True. And I do agree with your original point. I think the country has been extremely ill-served by it's political class of all colours over the past few years

[Arriba]

Jesus Christ, get a room!  

Whilst the smearing might be relentless I think it goes deeper than that, I am not aware of any of my friends being dyed in the wool to any party, however without exception Corbyn has lost us all now for the reasons that the Wiltshire scouser mentions, in addition he appears to have alienated the young with his prevarication about Brexit and instead they just seem to feel duped.

Add into the mix the whole anti-antisemitism stuff (which has been reported dreadfully, but is pretty dreadful anyway), and its as toxic in electoral terms as the Tories should be! Problem is Corbyn is not the power he is just a useful idiot to front the project and too many people have too much invested in him and depend on him to retain their power to let him step down.

Plus the anointed one seems to be Rebecca Long-Bailey so even if Corbyn went I don't see any upturn in fortunes as she is equally useless.

Your post above this one nails it for me. Labour have to appeal to the masses and not just the followers. Though I feel Corbyn has been treated very unfairly and often with utter lies and smears, he does have to go as he just won't attract enough support to win a general election.

[GosportNob]

Jesus Christ Arriba " Labour's policies under Corbyn are considerably more moderate than the press would have you believe"
In your alternative universe on planet Arriba re-nationalisation of swathes of industries at a fraction of their worth and massively increasing the power of trade unions to be able to secondary picket in disputes anywhere in the world to name but two of many is moderate.
I lived through the times of the shuffling grandad known as Michael Foot he was right wing compared to the current gang of Marxists.
I respect your views but would suggest you at least try to remain in touch with the real world ie. nothing wrong with Marxism but be honest about their goals of state control of every aspect of society.

[Arriba]

Jesus Christ Arriba " Labour's policies under Corbyn are considerably more moderate than the press would have you believe"
In your alternative universe on planet Arriba re-nationalisation of swathes of industries at a fraction of their worth and massively increasing the power of trade unions to be able to secondary picket in disputes anywhere in the world to name but two of many is moderate.
I lived through the times of the shuffling grandad known as Michael Foot he was right wing compared to the current gang of Marxists.
I respect your views but would suggest you at least try to remain in touch with the real world ie. nothing wrong with Marxism but be honest about their goals of state control of every aspect of society.

Not my words.....

[GosportNob]

Ooops sorry Arriba looks like I was reading Pauld's comments quoted by you. Sorry.

[horlock07]

I do because I think he is on a hiding to nothing due to the relentless smear campaign against him.

They do make it very easy for people to suggest that there might be, you know, a teensy little problem there...