Let's Get Political!

[LucienSanchez]

There are loads of things I hate about this whole shit show, but of it all, it's the idea that people won or lost the referendum. That phrasing makes everything so tribal. And in the end, everyone but the super rich will "lose". Just objectively look at where we are, what's on offer. Is this really good? The future looks genuinely bleak. Take the circumstances as they are now... ask if it's what is best for the majority of people living here and for those yet to be born (not just the majority of the people who voted 3 years ago), and do what is right.

[horlock07]

See the Brexit go-slow on the M4 and M5 this evening which was going to "bring the country to it's knees" ... erm, didn't: this is the Bristol Post's summary of what a country on it's knees looks like:

"The protest appears to be over before it began in Bristol, with no disruption hitting the area at all.

Our sister website Cornwall Live has given the following insight into how the demonstration kicked off on the south coast.

About 10 vehicles set off along the A30. The vehicles, three of which were decorated in banners and flags, left the service station at Plusha at about 3.30pm.

No lorries took part.

Organisers initially said 25 people had signed up to take part in the rolling road block after the prime minister asked the European Union to delay the UK’s exit date beyond March 29.

Speaking at the start of the protest, organiser Ian Grindod said: “It was never going to be a massive event anyway.”

Things got worse for the demonstrators further along the A30, when police stopped nine vehicles and reported two motorists for inconsiderate driving."

On a par with Nigel's March #sadface

Up here the police just nicked the vehicles at the front for causing and obstruction and it stopped!

[horlock07]

So you have given example Corbyn walked out of the meeting when realising he''d been stitched up... perhaps a misjudgement, but I'd have probably done the same, and not exactly crime of the century.

That's total bullshit, No.10 had confirmed to the media mid afternoon who was attending the meeting and thus Corbyn would have known at that time that Chucka would be there, however he chose to roll up and then flounce off like Toni leaving the TEF....

He is as ego driven as the rest of them, new politics my arsehole.

[horlock07]

Within broad church parties there will always be sub groups... as I've argued elsewhere, on the continent PR allows these groupings to exist independently and enter coalitions, in our system the coalitions are with in the same tent.

There is little similarity between Momentum and the MT.  Momentum is attempting to create a grassroots party, given that historic ties between Labour and the trade Unions have been weakened.  In return for their efforts, it is expected that MP's as representatives of the party, do at least show some semblance of supporting the aims and are not just naked careerists.

The definition of left wing when seen from the right is very flexible.... I've said it before, but many Tory politicians of the 50's and 60's would be seen as dangerously left wing now, with their commitments to social housing and high spending on education.... once centrist views still holding sway in European social democracy, the sort of place where momentum are.

You are Rachael Swindon and I claim my £10.

[Reg Smeeton]

You are Rachael Swindon and I claim my £10.

Is that the bird who's tipped to be your lot's next leader?  

Corbyn is certainly no Messiah, but he was probably down the allotment, before the meeting.

[horlock07]

Is that the bird who's tipped to be your lot's next leader? 

Corbyn is certainly no Messiah, but he was probably down the allotment, before the meeting.

My lot?? I don't have a lot, although as a Labour supporter 'your lot'  can mean some rather unpleasant things in the current climate....

So we are to believe that Corbyn went into a meeting with the PM without speaking to any aides or colleagues, that's even more tinpot that I imagined.

[Reg Smeeton]

My lot?? I don't have a lot, although as a Labour supporter 'your lot'  can mean some rather unpleasant things in the current climate....

I guess you either never got round to it or the membership of the Lib Dems you mentioned after the 2015 election has lapsed.

March is a busy time down the allotment, got to get your early spuds in and clean up your soil...

[horlock07]

Polls are polls, but its interesting to see the split is somewhat larger when 'leave' is defined rather than just a generic term.....

2nd Referendum Voting Intentions:

Remain Vs Govt. Deal
Remain: 61%
Govt. Deal: 39%

Remain Vs No Deal

Remain: 57%
No Deal: 43%

Via You Gov, 14-15 March. - Yeah I know its You Gov.

[RobertT]

It does support my assumption, that a fair chunk of those who voted out did so without any expectation of being tied in any way shape or form to the EU.  My thought process was that those who wanted some arrangement would probably have voted to Remain anyway.  Certainly the vast majority of people I know who voted out would be more than happy with no deal being in place on exit.

[Ardiles]

It's so murky, isn't it?  May is telling MPs now that she will disregard any indicative votes that breach her red lines.  In other words...even if you lot vote in favour of a Customs Union, I'm going to ignore that because while a Customs Union would solve the Irish border question and a load of other stuff, it would also entail freedom of movement which I promised to end in my last manifesto.

I think she'd have a stronger argument for taking that approach if that manifesto had actually given her a majority.  No right or wrong here.  It's all down to interpretation.  Does she have a mandate to deliver a No Deal Brexit?  I don't think she does...but I can see how others might argue otherwise.

[Batch]

Groundhog May again isn't it.

[RedRag]

So May says she will ignore any indicative votes she doesn't like.

You have to admire her ability to just bullshit everyone.

Last week May: "MPs are traitors and they only say what they don't want, not what they do want"

MPs: "OK we'll tell you what we want"

This week May: "Unless it's my deal I'll ignore you"

[Reg Smeeton]

It's so murky, isn't it? 
  Does she have a mandate to deliver a No Deal Brexit?  I don't think she does...but I can see how others might argue otherwise.

 Tory manifsto 2017 said we'd leave CU and Single Market, but negotiate a deal best for both UK and EU.... I think that has been fulfilled.

 That Parliament can't accept it, and has no mandate for anything else means a default to no deal, which they voted for.

There's nothing there undemocratic.

[RedRag]

Yes, to an extent but you have to take into account that, previous default vote or not, Parliament cannot bind itself. 

[pauld]

Yes, to an extent but you have to take into account that, previous default vote or not, Parliament cannot bind itself. 

Eh? Can you rephrase that, I'm struggling to understand what you mean - Parliament cannot bind itself to what? And why not?

FWIW, I think Reg is right, the choices are fairly clear, albeit all unpalatable. But if MPs now find them unpalatable, maybe they shouldn't have voted to hold an ill-thought out referendum to sort out their own internal squabbles in the first place.