Let's Get Political!

[chalkies_shorts]

Anything that shakes up the 2 party system is good. I always thought it was a joke that the best the USA could muster up was Trump v Clinton and then we go and have May v Corbyn. Both parties are a total farce at the moment. The fact Labour aren't 20 points ahead is shameful given the Tories total fucking up of everything they have touched in the last few years.
I'd like to think some of the more left wing Tories would join their Labour colleagues and give us a credible third party.
Both parties stink to high heaven and neither are worthy of anything other than complete contempt. Maybe it needed something like Brexit to show these shysters both red and blue in their true colours.

[Ardiles]

One thing that the break away group are right about is that UK politics is utterly broken.  There is so much that's wrong with it now.  The Tory/Labour duopoly (a direct consequence of FPTP) is a relic, and the root cause of much of the mess that the country is in at the moment.

[Ardiles]

Anything that shakes up the 2 party system is good. I always thought it was a joke that the best the USA could muster up was Trump v Clinton and then we go and have May v Corbyn. Both parties are a total farce at the moment. The fact Labour aren't 20 points ahead is shameful given the Tories total fucking up of everything they have touched in the last few years.
I'd like to think some of the more left wing Tories would join their Labour colleagues and give us a credible third party.
Both parties stink to high heaven and neither are worthy of anything other than complete contempt. Maybe it needed something like Brexit to show these shysters both red and blue in their true colours.

F*** me, Chalky.  We agreed on something!  

[donkey]

F*** me, Chalky.  We agreed on something!   

Maybe these 7 are on to something! :-)

[RobertT]

Better to ignore systems in place today and find a new one.  I like the idea of PR - but that no government as such is formed as a result.  You then elect several key positions, like the Board, who steer the country but the elected officials work on the detail, having to come to negotiated outcomes at all times.  Done in a transparent manner, I think people could live with not getting everything they want and you essentially remove the need for party affiliation - you could maybe keep it for the top jobs to enable the necessary funding for a campaign.  It wouldn't work for years to begin with, you'd have to accept the initial shit storm as people react to a new system with old values, but we are doing that with Brexit anyway.

[Reg Smeeton]

One thing that the break away group are right about is that UK politics is utterly broken.  There is so much that's wrong with it now.  The Tory/Labour duopoly (a direct consequence of FPTP) is a relic, and the root cause of much of the mess that the country is in at the moment.

The mess isn't to do with FPTP.  And to answer Nemo, the AV ref, would probably have got more participation if it had been about ownership at Villa Park.

The vast majority of voters don't really care about such niceties unless it was tied into self interest, like the Brerxit ref played the Leave vote. Had the message been vote for PR and get a tax cut, or vote PR and cut immigration it would have flown.

[Ardiles]

The mess isn't to do with FPTP.  And to answer Nemo, the AV ref, would probably have got more participation if it had been about ownership at Villa Park.

The vast majority of voters don't really care about such niceties unless it was tied into self interest, like the Brerxit ref played the Leave vote. Had the message been vote for PR and get a tax cut, or vote PR and cut immigration it would have flown.

Have to disagree.  FPTP disproportionately rewards larger parties, with the effect that smaller political groupings starved of the oxygen that they need to grow.  Consequently, we are stuck with the existing duopoly - two monolithic parties that stifle ideas, insist upon conformity and force our politics in to a miserable, binary choice.  Hearing the acrimony of some Labour supporters towards this group of 7 only serves to highlight the crushing pressure to conform.  Why should they?!

By way of example, UKIP were rewarded with a single MP in 2015, despite polling 3.8 million votes.  I have very little sympathy with UKIP’s aims, as you know, but I recognise that this result was a travesty of democracy.  Leaves to wonder how much UKIP voter anger was a factor in the Brexit vote the following year.

[Reg Smeeton]

Have to disagree.  FPTP disproportionately rewards larger parties, with the effect that smaller political groupings starved of the oxygen that they need to grow.  Consequently, we are stuck with the existing duopoly - two monolithic parties that stifle ideas, insist upon conformity and force our politics in to a miserable, binary choice.  Hearing the acrimony of some Labour supporters towards this group of 7 only serves to highlight the crushing pressure to conform.  Why should they?!

By way of example, UKIP were rewarded with a single MP in 2015, despite polling 3.8 million votes.  I have very little sympathy with UKIP’s aims, as you know, but I recognise that this result was a travesty of democracy.  Leaves to wonder how much UKIP voter anger was a factor in the Brexit vote the following year.

No the mess is caused by poor decision making.... this could come from coalitions of a more formal type, just as easily to the broad church coalition currently in place.

You might argue another Tory/Lib Dem coalition wouldn't have run an EU ref.... but PR might have chucked up a Tory/UKIP coalitition which would.

Politics is a messy business... it will still be a messy business under PR.

[suttonred]

Anything that shakes up the 2 party system is good. I always thought it was a joke that the best the USA could muster up was Trump v Clinton and then we go and have May v Corbyn. Both parties are a total farce at the moment. The fact Labour aren't 20 points ahead is shameful given the Tories total fucking up of everything they have touched in the last few years.
I'd like to think some of the more left wing Tories would join their Labour colleagues and give us a credible third party.
Both parties stink to high heaven and neither are worthy of anything other than complete contempt. Maybe it needed something like Brexit to show these shysters both red and blue in their true colours.

Would have been more of a statement if they had resigned completely. As it is they are still drawing their salaries and getting their backhanders from lobbyists no doubt. Wannabe political martyrs, without having any of the inconvenience of martyrdom.

[jayohaitchenn]

The new political (not really a) party website is registered in.... Panama!

https://www.whois.com/whois/theindependent.group

[suttonred]

The new political (not really a) party website is registered in.... Panama!

https://www.whois.com/whois/theindependent.group

Tax dodging already

[Legends-Lounge]

Under FPTP, the coalitions are more rigid and inflexible.  FPTP disenfranchises millions of voters.  It's had its day.

Of course you might want to take a look at the basket case that is Italy to see where PR has gotten them. Be careful for what you wish for.

[donkey]

Of course you might want to take a look at the basket case that is Italy to see where PR has gotten them. Be careful for what you wish for.

Or Sweden or Norway.  Be perfectly happy with that.
Imagine a country in which the proportion of seats you get in the House was in some way proportional to the votes received. Sounds pretty democratic to me.

[suttonred]

Or Sweden or Norway.  Be perfectly happy with that.
Imagine a country in which the proportion of seats you get in the House was in some way proportional to the votes received. Sounds pretty democratic to me.

Next time there is a vote here what happens when neither of them get any?

[RobertT]

Italy is a bad example.  They've been in kick the sandals off and chill mode since the fall of the Roman Empire, barring a brief flirtation with Fascism.