Let's Get Political!

[Sir red ken]

A call for unity might go better if you didn't start it by insulting the people you want to unite behind you?

Its not an insult, its the truth. Oh how I'm enjoying this,Merry Christmas.

[Reg Smeeton]

Much as I understand the need to pull things together at some point, I can't 'swing behind' Brexit - because it goes against just about everything that I believe in.

If there was a vote narrowly in favour of everyone supporting Oxford United, I'd swerve that as well...and suspect that you would too.  Brexit is your baby, not mine.  Swing behind it all you like, but I'll be watching on.

Are you going to stick in the UK Ardiles?  I know quite a few especially younger people who've done an Audrey and exercised their right to free movement, while still possible.

[Ardiles]

I'm flattered that you put me in that bracket, Reg.  : )

Probably, yes.  But a move to Scotland (where my other half is from) at some point has moved up the agenda, certainly.  I really don't like what this country (by which I mean England) has become, and feel less at home here than I did.  For me, that's very sad.

[Reg Smeeton]

I'm flattered that you put me in that bracket, Reg.  : )

Probably, yes.  But a move to Scotland (where my other half is from) at some point has moved up the agenda, certainly.  I really don't like what this country (by which I mean England) has become, and feel less at home here than I did.  For me, that's very sad.

Certainly the Scottish question has been subsumed in the Irish question, but the logic is that the Union will split and Scotland will join the EU. So that should work

[Ardiles]

Arguments in favour of Scottish independence are stronger than they were in 2014, I agree.  But it's interesting...while Brexit chaos has bolstered support for independence in some areas, it's also focused attention on the practical/operational difficulties associated with disentangling long-standing arrangements.  You could argue that severing the UK from its 40 yr association with the EU would be a walk in the park compared with removing Scotland from its 300+ yr membership of the UK.  One reason, perhaps, why support for independence has not shifted more in a country that voted 62% in favour of Remain.  No easy answers.

[Pax Romana]

Arguments in favour of Scottish independence are stronger than they were in 2014, I agree.  But it's interesting...while Brexit chaos has bolstered support for independence in some areas, it's also focused attention on the practical/operational difficulties associated with disentangling long-standing arrangements.  You could argue that severing the UK from its 40 yr association with the EU would be a walk in the park compared with removing Scotland from its 300+ yr membership of the UK.  One reason, perhaps, why support for independence has not shifted more in a country that voted 62% in favour of Remain.  No easy answers.

I agree with your analysis.  Interested that you state that support for (Scottish) independence has not shifted significantly.  Is that just a logical conclusion that you have drawn or has there been a recent survey?

[Ardiles]

I agree with your analysis.  Interested that you state that support for (Scottish) independence has not shifted significantly.  Is that just a logical conclusion that you have drawn or has there been a recent survey?

Haven't research in detail, if I'm honest.  I'm basing that purely on what I think I've heard recently...that the 45% in favour of independence in 2014 may have risen to 50% or thereabouts since, but no higher.  Happy to be corrected, though.

[Pax Romana]

I don't know either.  I do recall that some time back (summer I think) Nicola Sturgeon was saying that now is not the right time to be pushing for a second vote because they weren't confident enough of victory and knew that if they lost again then they would struggle to justify a third "once in a generation" vote for a long time.   I just wondered if something new that come up recently that I had missed in all the morass of Brexit.

[Flashheart]

The EU is now set to reveal their plans for a no deal.

Meanwhile, the government is still making people wait nearly a month for a key vote on it. Surely businesses/people would rather know what's happening as soon as possible rather being made to wait by some dithering old rich woman that's more interested in keeping her job.

No pressure, Theresa, in your own time love. Don't mind everybody else, eh? It's only the rest of the fucking country that's waiting on you.

[Ardiles]

That's all true.  May's behaviour is grossly irresponsible.  But my frustration with Corbyn is also rising by the day.  The 'sit & wait' strategy may have been workable up until recently, but now (& especially since May's decision to pull the vote on her deal) it's looking weak & indecisive.

He's the Leader of the Opposition.  If he isn't going to oppose now, when is he going to start?  What is he for?  He's playing right in to the government's hands.  Surely he can see this?

[Batch]

Surely May is trying to play on the fears of no deal to try and build public/business pressure so that the rebel MPs crumble. Hence the delays.

A massive game of brinkmanship.

Would she go through with it? Would parliament let her? I have no idea.
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Oh, and on the waiting....they're buggering off for Christmas until the 7th soon... Surely these are extraordinary times, enough to reduce that to a week.

[Batch]

That's all true.  May's behaviour is grossly irresponsible.  But my frustration with Corbyn is also rising by the day.  The 'sit & wait' strategy may have been workable up until recently, but now (& especially since May's decision to pull the vote on her deal) it's looking weak & indecisive.

He's the Leader of the Opposition.  If he isn't going to oppose now, when is he going to start?  What is he for?  He's playing right in to the government's hands.  Surely he can see this?

I'm in two minds about this.

The lack of a clearly communicated plan of action/alternative frustrates the hell out of me.

On the flip side, it is thought Tory MPs/DUP will rally round and prevent any parliamentary vote of no confidence in the government.

I think he is playing the brinkmanship game too. He presumably thinks removing the government as soon as it is apparent Mays deal is dead after the vote (assuming that happens).

Then what?

Can only see an extension of article 50 and possibly a GE.

Change of government - just can't see anyone backing a peoples vote and knackering their own party in doing so - except the lib dems. They knackered their own vote on tuition fees.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

No doubt the lip readers will have noticed Corby’s ‘Stupid woman’ mouthing during PMQs

[Batch]

No doubt the lip readers will have noticed Corby’s ‘Stupid woman’ mouthing during PMQs

Its all kicked off on PMQs. They are still talking about it now, "outraged".

[Matchworn Shirts]

She is a stupid woman