Pages: 1 ... 249 250 251 [252] 253 254 255 ... 268   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 346099 times)
Sir red ken
Yellow troll


+7/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 397




Ignore
« Reply #3765 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:12:15 »

There has been no loss of sovereignty to the EU, rather a pooling of some bits of sovereignty. It's rather like we pool our sovereignty over defence to NATO, which effectively means the US.

I'll challenge you to name one area where the EU has imposed on the UK, something that our politicians/civil service didn't want.
Our political class and civil servant are mostly EU funded nutters, they would agree to anything by the EU, but to answer your question and its going to hurt..."More than 50,000 EU laws introduced in the UK over last 25 years highlights scale of challenge facing lawmakers following ‘Brexit" so they've imposed legal rquirements on the UK. How's that made you think again? No thought not keep speaking the rullling classes words.
Logged
Sir red ken
Yellow troll


+7/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 397




Ignore
« Reply #3766 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:14:26 »

There was a famous group in history who used similar terminology to describe those who dared to disagree with them....  Hmmm




A brain washed Left wing Nazi calling others a Nazi, oh the Irony. My family is Jews so suck on that you self righteous Nazi.
Logged
bamboonoshoe


+74/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 2389


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3767 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:18:49 »

Our political class and civil servant are mostly EU funded nutters, they would agree to anything by the EU, but to answer your question and its going to hurt..."More than 50,000 EU laws introduced in the UK over last 25 years highlights scale of challenge facing lawmakers following ‘Brexit" so they've imposed legal rquirements on the UK. How's that made you think again? No thought not keep speaking the rullling classes words.

Reg did say "...something that our politicians/civil service didn't want." but you seem to have let that important point go over your troll sized head.
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
pauld


+110/-116
Offline Offline

Posts: 18670





Ignore
« Reply #3768 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:22:01 »

So when Ted took us into the EU and said they'd be no loss of sovereignty,when he knew full well there would be, he wasn't cheating?When John Major hid the facts of the Maastricht Treaty from Parliment that wasn't cheating? When Moron Brown signed the lesbian treaty without consent of the people further enslaving the uk that wasn't cheating.
Think you missed RedRag's very good point
This is not about he lied, she lied in the rough and tumble of an election campaign.  It's about illegality, alleged illegality.
The examples you cite are, you allege, examples of politicans lying or bending the truth. The allegations against Banks are of actual criminality. There's a difference
Logged
Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia


+109/-435
Offline Offline

Posts: 31817





Ignore
« Reply #3769 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:22:41 »

Our political class and civil servant are mostly EU funded nutters, they would agree to anything by the EU, but to answer your question and its going to hurt..."More than 50,000 EU laws introduced in the UK over last 25 years highlights scale of challenge facing lawmakers following ‘Brexit" so they've imposed legal rquirements on the UK. How's that made you think again? No thought not keep speaking the rullling classes words.

As I said we pooled our sovereignty in certain areas, this has largely been beneficial, it's why we chose to goi down that route. May said some time ago that all the EU agreed laws will pass back into UK law on Brexit, and then can be scrutinisd and unpicked if required.  It's mostly things like agreed food standards and environmental standards.... these are not things which will change much on Brexit, as we'll need to stay aligned in order to carry on trading.

It's rather like the outbreak of BSE in UK cattle some years back... the EU imposed a ban on the export of UK beef, it lasted 10 years until our vets could show cattle were now clear. I guess in your head that's an example of EU imposition, which with Brexit we can ignore and flog burgers that can kill. Even with EU standards yoiu can still get things like the horse meat scandal, where products labelled as beef contained horse meat, and it seemed a Euro wide practice, but with strong links to the RoI.
« Last Edit: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:36:37 by Reg Smeeton » Logged
pauld


+110/-116
Offline Offline

Posts: 18670





Ignore
« Reply #3770 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:26:13 »

An election result can never be dismissed even if obtained on the back of illegality


Except there are many precedents for this, most recently in Kenya and Austria.  So it can and does happen.

The hypothetical question of what remedy would be appropriate if the referendum majority were found to have been obtained on the back of illegality would be determinable by a Court of law.

This is not about he lied, she lied in the rough and tumble of an election campaign.  It's about illegality, alleged illegality.

Well there is a precedent, which is the Tories' illegal overspending in Thanet to deny Farage a seat in 2015. They have been found guilty of breaking electoral law and fined for doing so, but the result stands and Mackinlay is still the sitting MP. However, he is also now on trial for the same offence, be interesting to see what happens if he is personally found guilty:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46059598
Logged
Ardiles


+20/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 10071





Ignore
« Reply #3771 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:28:49 »

Not just that, but every time you do a deal with another country or bloc, you'll cede a bit of sovereignty.  Trade deal with the US?  You'll cede sovereignty to the US.  'Take back control' is bullshit.  We'll be the junior partner in any deal made with the US, China, India, EU etc.  There goes your sovereignty.  It's deeply depressing that so many fell for this nonsense.
Logged
Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia


+109/-435
Offline Offline

Posts: 31817





Ignore
« Reply #3772 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 20:44:25 »

Not just that, but every time you do a deal with another country or bloc, you'll cede a bit of sovereignty.  Trade deal with the US?  You'll cede sovereignty to the US.  'Take back control' is bullshit.  We'll be the junior partner in any deal made with the US, China, India, EU etc.  There goes your sovereignty.  It's deeply depressing that so many fell for this nonsense.

Taking back sovereignty is a catchy line though, it sounds important even if it's bullshit.

You could argue that we should take back control of football from FIFA, as it's our game, we invented it, however we chose to pool sovereignty, and got a global game out of it. The soft power bit, which we're now incidentally throwing away with the EU, is that we got to keep a 50/50 UK voting position on IFAB, football's law making body
Logged
Sir red ken
Yellow troll


+7/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 397




Ignore
« Reply #3773 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:18:16 »

Taking back sovereignty is a catchy line though, it sounds important even if it's bullshit.

You could argue that we should take back control of football from FIFA, as it's our game, we invented it, however we chose to pool sovereignty, and got a global game out of it. The soft power bit, which we're now incidentally throwing away with the EU, is that we got to keep a 50/50 UK voting position on IFAB, football's law making body
Peter Shore put it correctly in 1975
A nation which takes laws from other, non elected rulers, isn't a country its a Legislative Region.
Football is a game a county is very different.
Logged
bamboonoshoe


+74/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 2389


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3774 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:29:11 »

A nation which takes laws from other, non elected rulers, isn't a country its a Legislative Region.

Except one nation didn't take laws from another...

If you're referring to the EU, which works like a democratic council. That isn't a nation either. It's an economic bloc.
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
RobertT


+46/-27
Offline Offline

Posts: 6363




Ignore
« Reply #3775 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:31:00 »

More importantly, when are all the expats in Spain moving back?
Logged
RedRag


+15/-10
Offline Offline

Posts: 1746





Ignore
« Reply #3776 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:31:36 »

Peter Shore put it correctly in 1975
A nation which takes laws from other, non elected rulers, isn't a country its a Legislative Region.
Football is a game a county is very different.
I'd always regarded France and Germany as countries rather than regions, myself.  Thanks for pointing out my error.
Logged
RobertT


+46/-27
Offline Offline

Posts: 6363




Ignore
« Reply #3777 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:36:04 »

As it happens the EU has been an unqualified success.  This must be longest period where no European country has been at ware with another since, well, for a long old time, which was the founding reason.  You achieve that by tying the countries up in knots together - we all rely on each other for economic and social success.  So what if a bunch of sensible laws were passed during that period, better to get decent water quality than bombing each other.
Logged
Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia


+109/-435
Offline Offline

Posts: 31817





Ignore
« Reply #3778 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:38:25 »

Peter Shore put it correctly in 1975
A nation which takes laws from other, non elected rulers, isn't a country its a Legislative Region.
Football is a game a county is very different.

But we don't, not having been invaded since 1066.

The challenge is still open to you, can you name one instance of where the EU has imposed on our sovereignty, without our Parliament's agreement.

Another example of pooled sovereignty is the Council of Europe, which administers the ECHR, there are 47 countries in the this including Russia. It developed after WW II as it was realised that as European states, we shared more than divided us, and this supranatioinal body might help avoid future European conflicts, by upholding an agreed definition of humanity.
Logged
bamboonoshoe


+74/-166
Offline Offline

Posts: 2389


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3779 on: Thursday, November 1, 2018, 21:40:42 »

More importantly, when are all the expats in Spain moving back?

Good news for all the Greasy Spoons back in Blighty, except sources say that there may well be a sausage shortage and we'll have to import more of the Spanish type of cured sausage. Oh the irony!  Pint
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
Pages: 1 ... 249 250 251 [252] 253 254 255 ... 268   Go Up
Print
Jump to: