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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 1995785 times)
Pax Romana

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« Reply #3150 on: Saturday, April 21, 2018, 10:38:27 »

Superb triumph for President Trump's diplomatic initiative in bringing Kim Jung-un into line. 

One in the eye for all the idiots who doubted his world leadership skills.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #3151 on: Monday, April 23, 2018, 19:41:44 »

Interesting listening for your perusal https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/988482385640673281
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
Ardiles

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« Reply #3152 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 11:56:59 »

MPs debating the Customs Union issue in parliament now.  Is there any polling on this to look at whether there is support for a Customs Union in the country as a whole?  I cannot find any - so not sure whether the Tory policy reflects the majority view.  You hear all sorts of threats from the Mogg-wing of the Tory party equating support for a Customs Union with blocking 'the will of the people'...but is that strictly speaking correct?  What is the polling at the moment on this specific issue?
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #3153 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 12:05:14 »

I thought Cameron and Gideon had been very clear that the Brexit vote was about leaving the Customs Union, hence Project Fear, which may or may not yet be realised.
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horlock07

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« Reply #3154 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 12:07:46 »

MPs debating the Customs Union issue in parliament now.  Is there any polling on this to look at whether there is support for a Customs Union in the country as a whole?  I cannot find any - so not sure whether the Tory policy reflects the majority view.  You hear all sorts of threats from the Mogg-wing of the Tory party equating support for a Customs Union with blocking 'the will of the people'...but is that strictly speaking correct?  What is the polling at the moment on this specific issue?

Who knows, however as the referendum made no mention of leaving or staying in the CU - in fact many prominent leavers (Johnson, Gove, Hannan for example) in their campaigning made much that a vote to leave the EU was not a vote to leave the CU (and actually that we would be rater stupid to do so). Therefore Mogg and May are making much of the public apparently explicitly voting for an outcome that the public were never explicitly asked a question regarding.

But when you look at the present record of lying in parliament regarding Windrush (Rudd and May) and Brexit (May, Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Gove - and still counting!), not really sure what point parliament has anymore bar being a rubber stamping committee.  
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Batch
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« Reply #3155 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 12:15:34 »

MP'the will of the people'...

That's the whole issue with Brexit. No matter which side of the divide the vote had come down on, its not a strong enough result to shut the other side up.  Using it to ass cover decisions itself is fairly shitty.

With respect to the specifics, does the average person know the difference between leaving the EU, Customs Union and Single market. Nope. I sure as hell struggle and I consider myself average !

The referendum voting form was



And its being used to mean whatever will do the least damage to the Tory party.
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« Reply #3156 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 12:18:34 »

Another ting that's pissing me off. The Labour anti semitism row. Clearly a problem that needs fixing.

But seriously, do people think all the anti-jewsh political minded joined just labour? If its a problem, its going to be with society not a  particular political party.

Anything to beat down Corbyn I suppose, who hasn't exactly set the world on fire since the election.
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #3157 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 12:31:20 »

Baroness Chakrabati has been amazingly quiet on the anti Semitism row after issuing her whitwash and taking her reward.
I'm with Batch, I can't work out if its a particular problem with Labour or people lumping in on it to smear them.
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horlock07

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« Reply #3158 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 12:50:53 »

I'm with Batch, I can't work out if its a particular problem with Labour or people lumping in on it to smear them.

It is a problem in Labour, as it is a problem in other parties (there are plenty of examples doing the rounds of prospective Tory candidates saying some very fruity stuff about Jews, and others, on social media), I think what has escalated the issue in Labour is that its a two pronged attack with both the Tories (understandably) making hay out of it, but also  a large part of the anti-Corbyn Labour Party also grasping the opportunity to stick the boot in. Its a mess which needs sorting out, and frankly Corbyn isn't helping himself or the party by sitting on his hands with his finger up his arse.

What gets on my tits with it is a) the amount of Tories and Tory supporters making a massive fuss about it, whilst simultaneously having a big problem with foreign people generally, May has  long history of being, putting it politely, xenophobic and the whole Windrush thing which should be a massive scandal is getting glossed over while she tries to bullshit out of it and b) the idea that having concerns about the actions of the Israeli government has now become apparently anti-Semitic, on that basis I assume we can also claim that anyone who supports the Israeli's actions are Islamophobic?

Sick of politics in this Banana Republic, no fucking idea who to vote for in the forthcoming locals as even the local Lib Dems have shown themselves to be as bent as fuck round here!

« Last Edit: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 12:55:41 by horlock07 » Logged
pauld
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« Reply #3159 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 12:51:50 »

Baroness Chakrabati has been amazingly quiet on the anti Semitism row after issuing her whitwash and taking her reward.
I'm with Batch, I can't work out if its a particular problem with Labour or people lumping in on it to smear them.
Bit of both, there is a definite problem on the left of (legitimate) opposition to Israel's behaviour segueing into generalised anti-Zionism and thence into anti-Semitism, but equally it is being used as a stick to beat Corbyn with. But then if he'd shown a bit of cojones to actually tackle the more rabid of his supporters who are causing him and Labour a problem, it wouldn't be nearly so effective a stick
Sadly there's always been an element of the hard left that has found the anti-capitalist/populist nature of anti-Semitism attractive as per AB's post. Then from the 70s there was the pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel sentiment which bundled together into "anti-Zionism" i.e. a criticism of/opposition to Israel's behaviour, or even existence, as a nation state, largely stemming from their behaviour toward Palestinians but also their position as a world actor, for those on the left who see anti-Americanism as fundamental tenet. Sadly, some of the wilder fringes find it difficult to stop anti-Zionism (criticism/hostility to Israel) from collapsing into anti-Semitism (hostility to Jews as a people). I don't believe for a minute that Corbyn is anti-Semitic but he has shown a complete lack of leadership in dealing with those elements on the left who are. And in doing so, his failure of leadership has allowed what should have been a 5-minute Daily Mail wonder to become a serious problem for Labour.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3160 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 14:00:54 »

 The last leader of the Labour Party was Jewish.....
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pauld
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« Reply #3161 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 14:37:27 »

The last leader of the Labour Party was Jewish.....
"... some of my best friends are black".
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3162 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 14:51:25 »

 I do think that although there was no box about Custom's Union or Single market on the form... the out vote does in fact mean leaving all.

 There was certainly enough flagging up at the time that taking an economic hit would be the consequence of Brexit, just that it would be short to medium term.  So Japanese motor corps would leave, but we could make up the loss by tax haven shenanigans.
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #3163 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 14:55:25 »

I do think that although there was no box about Custom's Union or Single market on the form... the out vote does in fact mean leaving all.

 There was certainly enough flagging up at the time that taking an economic hit would be the consequence of Brexit, just that it would be short to medium term.  So Japanese motor corps would leave, but we could make up the loss by tax haven shenanigans.
Have to agree. It was a shambles that so few people fully understood what they were voting on (and I include myself in that) but pretty clear people were voting to leave the whole shebang. It was not a nuanced debate, to suggest the outcome was somehow more subtle and nuanced than a simple in/out is spin.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #3164 on: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 15:07:18 »

Have to agree. It was a shambles that so few people fully understood what they were voting on (and I include myself in that) but pretty clear people were voting to leave the whole shebang. It was not a nuanced debate, to suggest the outcome was somehow more subtle and nuanced than a simple in/out is spin.

The problem caused is that nobody thought the British people could be that stupid, a major miscalculation.  The political establishment hasn't got a clue how to push this forward... hence the need for a transition deal, to see if somebody might think of something...
« Last Edit: Thursday, April 26, 2018, 15:12:37 by Reg Smeeton » Logged
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