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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 2010666 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #1605 on: Tuesday, May 10, 2016, 08:59:19 »

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153737876761939/

I am just not sure how this can happen, does the issue of conflict of interest not apply to politicians?
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horlock07

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« Reply #1606 on: Monday, May 16, 2016, 14:24:47 »

Well its a novel way to get party membership up, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36304722
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Arriba

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« Reply #1607 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 10:48:30 »

Is there any unbiased information on the in-out of Europe decision we face anywhere ?

I am undecided how to vote and am sick of the scaremongering from both sides. I want to make my decision on whatever is more likely either way.
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4D
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« Reply #1608 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 10:52:52 »

I never listen to politicians. I'll make my own mind up.
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Don Rogers Sock

« Reply #1609 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 10:54:02 »

Is there any unbiased information on the in-out of Europe decision we face anywhere ?

I am undecided how to vote and am sick of the scaremongering from both sides. I want to make my decision on whatever is more likely either way.
You won't get one mate. Someone will try to give you it,then someone will counter claim it then after that they will argue between themselves making you question why you bothered asking.
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4D
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« Reply #1610 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 10:55:32 »

It's funny how the concentration is all on the negative, be nice to hear what the positives/benefits are to remain in.
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horlock07

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« Reply #1611 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:04:06 »

Is there any unbiased information on the in-out of Europe decision we face anywhere ?

I am undecided how to vote and am sick of the scaremongering from both sides. I want to make my decision on whatever is more likely either way.

I have been reading this which is independent and seems to like silly things like evidence to support positions https://fullfact.org/

I don't know why they all insist on constantly putting figures to everything.

FWIW my simplistic interpretation, mainly based upon life and professional experience and discussions with people I know who work within the financial sector is that leaving will cause uncertainty and the markets/business/the public don't like uncertainty. This will potentially lead to a recession or at the very best stagnation (of indeterminable length) as everyone one from Starbucks to Goldman Sachs to you and I retrench and wait to see what happens avoiding spending unnecessary capital (investing in businesses, buying government bonds, buying a new washing machine) until we get an idea of what's going to happen, the speed of recovery will depend on how quickly the markets/business regains confidence and possibly how quickly trade agreements can be agreed with others - those in Europe are likely to feel somewhat betrayed and thus unlikely to be helpful (based not on what Osbourne may say but on experience of simple human nature).

So we leave, we have a self inflicted recession (of unknown length) and no real idea of what the future holds, now as someone with a young kid who will have to get a job some day and investments and pensions tied up with the financial markets that doesn't seem a very good idea, whilst the EU is not perfect much of the out campaign seems to relate to things that 'may' happen in the future, Turkey and other countries joining (repeat after me its not about immigration though!), trade agreements which are not signed and seem to have limited support in the EU anyway, the NHS which most of the leading out protagonists do not give a gnats backside about and needs reform anyway and seems to be led by the wealthy and asset rich that will not be particularly affected by any recession and actually often benefit from financial uncertainty. Equally it seems much of the out support comes from the older generation who I suspect are mortgage free, already secured and claiming their pension and will have kids who are well onto the career ladder and not starting out when this potential political and financial storm hits.

All of the above has been gathered by listening to the arguments in detail and ignoring the obvious blather coming from all sides, my simple question would be with so much uncertainty - why now. If the EU Armageddon projected by the outers comes to fruition well lets review it then and leave in 5-10 years if evidence supports that position, its just a once in a lifetime opportunity for the outers, and thus we have the chaos we are now enduring, whilst the whole country drifts anyway in the absence of a viable opposition.

Plus I am sorry to say I cannot see beyond the fact that this is all just an internal struggle within the Tory Party which Johnson has latched upon to unseat Cameron and Osbourne, so we could see an Autumn election if we vote out, so even more to fuel a recession and the position of a Tory Party who have inflicted recession/stagnation upon the Country (mainly for personal advancement and benefit) pitted against a Labour Party that seem devoid of ideas, have limited trust outside their hard core support and are engaging in their own internal appendage waving contest - future generations will really thank us for that!

 Its a shambles and has just revealed all the prejudices, factions and willingness to follow 'leaders' based on untruths and lies of the British people, its getting almost embarrassing and I dread to think what future historians will think of this?

Sorry for rambling, I have pretty much made a decision now so have given up listening really unless someone comes up with something that actually makes sense... The underhand nature of it all was really bought home to me by this http://leftfootforward.org/2016/06/labour-leave-is-funded-by-tory-donors-and-vote-leave-not-labour-and-trade-unions/
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Peter Venkman
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« Reply #1612 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:10:47 »

Is there any unbiased information on the in-out of Europe decision we face anywhere ?

I am undecided how to vote and am sick of the scaremongering from both sides. I want to make my decision on whatever is more likely either way.
I think the underlying factor in all of this is that they genuinely don't know.

Its all guesswork with nobody actually knowing what the benefits/negatives will be if we leave vs staying how we are if we stay.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't?

I too don't trust anything the politicians say, this whole campaign has been badly handled by both sides and I don't think the man on the treet will benefit financially either way if we stay in or get out.

« Last Edit: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:12:38 by Peter Venkman » Logged

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« Reply #1613 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:14:55 »

It's a pretty safe bet to say we'd be hit harder financially if we left though. For a time, anyway.
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Nemo
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« Reply #1614 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:28:03 »

Is there any unbiased information on the in-out of Europe decision we face anywhere ?

I am undecided how to vote and am sick of the scaremongering from both sides. I want to make my decision on whatever is more likely either way.

Martin Lewis of Money Saving Expert has written something relatively sane on the topic, basically agreeing with PV above that nobody genuinely knows and that anyone who tells you otherwise is a bit of a berk:

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/06/05/how-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/
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Saxondale

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« Reply #1615 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:39:38 »

Here the thing.  Im voting to remain.  The main reason Im voting to remain is that neither side has done a sodding thing to convince me otherwise.  Id rather stay with the status quo until both sides pull themselves together and stop acting like children.  They are both lying and should have their referendum taken away from them until the start behaving like adults.

We are being made to vote on something we are not qualified to make an informed decision about and we are not being given the information.  We are sorting out a spat between Eton schoolboys in the tory party. The position Boris has taken is self interest in extremis.  If it wasn't self interest then his swinging in the space of 1 month from pro to anti Europe would suggest he is a dangerous schizophrenic.  What next Boris? Is it going to be another side of your personality deciding we should all wear cock rings and fuck donuts?  Oh ok, well he's amusing isn't he so lets do that.   

Its pathetic.  I would refuse to vote but I know that the only people who would definitely vote are the frothing at the mouth knuckle draggers on both sides and Im afraid the leave campaign has more of those.
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« Reply #1616 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:42:04 »

I think the underlying factor in all of this is that they genuinely don't know.

Its all guesswork with nobody actually knowing what the benefits/negatives will be if we leave vs staying how we are if we stay.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't?

I too don't trust anything the politicians say, this whole campaign has been badly handled by both sides and I don't think the man on the treet will benefit financially either way if we stay in or get out.



What if you don't know if the devil you know isn't the worst one? I'm going to vote out just to see. It's not as if in a couple of years we say "oops, we made a mistake, can we come back"? They'll say no.
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Peter Venkman
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« Reply #1617 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:44:45 »

Here the thing.  Im voting to remain.  The main reason Im voting to remain is that neither side has done a sodding thing to convince me otherwise.  Id rather stay with the status quo until both sides pull themselves together and stop acting like children.  They are both lying and should have their referendum taken away from them until the start behaving like adults.

We are being made to vote on something we are not qualified to make an informed decision about and we are not being given the information.  We are sorting out a spat between Eton schoolboys in the tory party. The position Boris has taken is self interest in extremis.  If it wasn't self interest then his swinging in the space of 1 month from pro to anti Europe would suggest he is a dangerous schizophrenic.  What next Boris? Is it going to be another side of your personality deciding we should all wear cock rings and fuck donuts?  Oh ok, well he's amusing isn't he so lets do that.   

Its pathetic.  I would refuse to vote but I know that the only people who would definitely vote are the frothing at the mouth knuckle draggers on both sides and Im afraid the leave campaign has more of those.
I pretty much agree on all of that.
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Arriba

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« Reply #1618 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:46:39 »

Thanks for the responses chaps. Plenty for me to digest there. Still clear as mud ain't it though?

Ironically, a remain leaflet has dropped through my letterbox today with Martin Lewis on the front of it.
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Nemo
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« Reply #1619 on: Monday, June 6, 2016, 11:49:53 »

Ironically, a remain leaflet has dropped through my letterbox today with Martin Lewis on the front of it.

Yeah, he wasn't happy about that at all, he talks about it!
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