Let's Get Political!

[horlock07]

In their defence we can see now what a moderating influence the Lib Dems were on Dave and George.

As Frankie Boyle astutely observed, it shows how right wing our government is when Doctors can be seen as dangerous radicals.

Frankie Boyle astutely observed that..... its been all over the net for about 6 months!

[inept and tiresome]

I see my old political party is trying the impossible and appear to be disappearing up its own rectum.
When you adopt the policies' of every minority you find yourselves in this situation.
I imagine their Must be many wards, cities and towns were not to be anti Semitic would be a lethal stance if you intend to be a member of parliament of those wards
When the Labour Party gets back to basics and fight for the rights of the working class and only the working class then it'll  always be thus.
Manner from heaven for the tories.

[Reg Smeeton]

I see my old political party is trying the impossible and appear to be disappearing up its own rectum.
When you adopt the policies' of every minority you find yourselves in this situation.
I imagine their Must be many wards, cities and towns were not to be anti Semitic would be a lethal stance if you intend to be a member of parliament of those wards
When the Labour Party gets back to basics and fight for the rights of the working class and only the working class then it'll  always be thus.
Manner from heaven for the tories.

Manna it's manna. You raise some interesting points, however.

We're now having to front up to issues that historically were of little consequence in domestic politics.  It is very easy to get plunged into maelstrom of conflict, because you have to walk on eggshells.

So for example, I guess your referring to the suspension of an MP, Naz Shah and the axolotyl's greatest fan for alleged anti-Semitic views.  The term anti-Semitic though here is wrongly applied, because all the native peoples of the Middle East are Semitic, both Jews and Arabs.

Of course, people of sub continental origin are not Semitic, which would include Shah, who I'd guess isn't anti-Arab. 

Given the periodic Arabic onslaughts on the State of Israel, and Britain's role in its foundation, our position is allows likely to be viewed with suspicion.  Previously though, this was the stuff of the Foreign Office

[horlock07]

Manna it's manna. You raise some interesting points, however.

We're now having to front up to issues that historically were of little consequence in domestic politics.  It is very easy to get plunged into maelstrom of conflict, because you have to walk on eggshells.

So for example, I guess your referring to the suspension of an MP, Naz Shah and the axolotyl's greatest fan for alleged anti-Semitic views.  The term anti-Semitic though here is wrongly applied, because all the native peoples of the Middle East are Semitic, both Jews and Arabs.

Of course, people of sub continental origin are not Semitic, which would include Shah, who I'd guess isn't anti-Arab. 

Given the periodic Arabic onslaughts on the State of Israel, and Britain's role in its foundation, our position is allows likely to be viewed with suspicion.  Previously though, this was the stuff of the Foreign Office

I think its actually a lot simpler and less nuanced than that, it seems to boil down to whether if you disagree with the activities and foreign policy of the state of Israel you are by default anti-Semite an issue that the Labour Party is presently letting itself get very bogged down in?

[Reg Smeeton]

I think its actually a lot simpler and less nuanced than that, it seems to boil down to whether if you disagree with the activities and foreign policy of the state of Israel you are by default anti-Semite an issue that the Labour Party is presently letting itself get very bogged down in?

As I tried to explain anti-Semite is an inappropriate term....anti-Zionist might be better, but Zionism, is something not followed by all Jews and has a relatively recent history. There are others who hold Zionist views who aren't Jews, like Rastas.

Simple it is not...

[horlock07]

As I tried to explain anti-Semite is an inappropriate term....anti-Zionist might be better, but Zionism, is something not followed by all Jews and has a relatively recent history. There are others who hold Zionist views who aren't Jews, like Rastas.

Simple it is not...

Simple it is (although I accept my terminology was clunky) Labour seem to have been drawn into the position much appreciated on social media that any criticism of Israel as a state is obviously entirely to do with and directly linked to its principal religion, its the Flash v. GL5 thread but within the public domain within a political party.

[Ardiles]

There was a chap on BBC Radio 5 a short while ago making the argument that if there was one 'black' state in the world (as there is one Jewish state), it would be completely unacceptable to perpetually criticise that state without being accused of racism.  You would be racist by default.

I found that argument profoundly disturbing.  The idea that you cannot criticise the state of Israel without, by default, being racist or anti-Semitic is absurd.  On that basis, any criticism of Israel would be off limits - simply by virtue of it being the sole 'Jewish' state.  I do not understand how any intelligent person could take that position.

[RedRag]

It would be a good deal simpler if people in general used the correct terminology - which you set out very precisely, Reg.
In my view, a number of Jewish Zionists seek to extend the meaning of anti Semitic to include anti Zionism (as covered above) whilst narrowing its meaning to exclude semitic Arabs from the Semitic descriptor. Not sure if this makes me a racist or pedant or just a bit of a ....?

[Saxondale]

Arguably the more important political story today is that the CPS have requested extra time to look into electoral fraud committed by the Conservative party in a number of marginal constituencies in the run up to the election last year.  Including Chippenham.

But that doesnt seem to be as big a story as Ken Livingstone says something stupid which I thought had been done to death over the last 30 year.

 

[Reg Smeeton]

Ken is due to speak at the Swindon Festival of Literature soon, I had him down as a balance to right wing nutjobs like Roger Scruton and AN Wilson....but maybe now Ken is joining them 

Vince Cable, is also putting in a shift, which should attract ther likes of Horlock and Ardiles.

Just for the record, I do think that the SFoL and all who sail in her, is a wonderful thing.

[Outletred]

Arguably the more important political story today is that the CPS have requested extra time to look into electoral fraud committed by the Conservative party in a number of marginal constituencies in the run up to the election last year.  Including Chippenham.

But that doesnt seem to be as big a story as Ken Livingstone says something stupid which I thought had been done to death over the last 30 year.

Stop clutching at straws. The Conservative party won the election. Move on
 

[Saxondale]

Outlet red.

They won but they probably cheated.  Spending extra money in 30 constituencies that swung a majority in their favour.

The CPS are deciding if there is a case to answer.  Are you saying the CPS are clutching at straws?  Its not me thats not moving on, its the CPS.

Id say its a pretty big story.

[Pax Romana]

Outlet red.

They won but they probably cheated.  Spending extra money in 30 constituencies that swung a majority in their favour.

Id say its a pretty big story.

Well it's clearly not a big story currently because no-one is focussing on it.

My antipathy to you raising it is that whenever this kind of story gets traction it encourages the self-delusional within the labour party to imagine that there was nothing wrong with the their message to the electorate, it was simply that the nasty tories cheated. 

That's bollocks.  The tories never win an election, they are simply handed it by default.  There are not enough people in this country with the selfish self-interest to vote positively for them.  What counts is whether the labour party chooses to win or lose the election.  Any tory majority comes from people voting for them out of despair or fear of the labour message. Every time that smokescreens such as "Tories cheating" or "the Murdoch press" become hot topics it gives credence to the absurd belief of the left that their message is the winning one if only they had a level playing field. 

[Nemo]

http://punthunt.uk/#

I'll just leave this here...

[jayohaitchenn]

http://punthunt.uk/#

I'll just leave this here...