Ground Redevelopment Or Never? And Left Behind!

[garethgillman]

The Council did just spend 15million on a car park, and demolished another couple at the same time, so anything is possible.  The trick has always been that any development has always been approached from what it would do the for the Club, not the Council.  Given they can't even manage to develop their own land where they ran the sites though, I wouldn't hold your breath.  They've shown willing to pass off the buck on every other asset of community value they've had.

Exactly..... they won't let the club leave the town centre so they surely should be helping the club improve it so it doesn't look like an eyesore. The only part of the ground which doesn't need knocking down is the DR but that needs to be modified to open up the boxes hidden in the middle.

Rebuilding the arkells and the TE will dramatically improve the look and feel of the stadium and increase revenue in the ground and will be less costly than their other ideas with better ROI for the council.

[Reg Smeeton]

Exactly..... they won't let the club leave the town centre so they surely should be helping the club improve it so it doesn't look like an eyesore. The only part of the ground which doesn't need knocking down is the DR but that needs to be modified to open up the boxes hidden in the middle.

Rebuilding the arkells and the TE will dramatically improve the look and feel of the stadium and increase revenue in the ground and will be less costly than their other ideas with better ROI for the council.

You probably need to understand that with SBC, they will be looking to condemn parts of the CG, rather than thinking about redevelopment. The ruse, is to hand over our assets to their chums to run for a few years, when there's no profit than a change of use can be applied for. Therefore forget any shiny new stuff, but be prepared to fight for the CG we've got now, because it certainly shouldn't be taken for granted in the Post Brexit/Trump world.

[garethgillman]

You probably need to understand that with SBC, they will be looking to condemn parts of the CG, rather than thinking about redevelopment. The ruse, is to hand over our assets to their chums to run for a few years, when there's no profit than a change of use can be applied for. Therefore forget any shiny new stuff, but be prepared to fight for the CG we've got now, because it certainly shouldn't be taken for granted in the Post Brexit/Trump world.

Fortunately they don't own the stadium, they only own the land (as far as I am aware), so it's not an asset they can (currently) sell off but if they were to invest in getting it redeveloped then they would likely want to own some or all of it BUT not many owners would allow that to happen (as owners want assets for the club).

I wouldn't trust a councillor as far as I can throw them so we would have to go into anything like this with eyes open but if other towns and cities can help their clubs redevelop their grounds, why can't SBC as the benefits to the town as a whole are substantial.

[Reg Smeeton]

Fortunately they don't own the stadium, they only own the land (as far as I am aware), so it's not an asset they can (currently) sell off but if they were to invest in getting it redeveloped then they would likely want to own some or all of it BUT not many owners would allow that to happen (as owners want assets for the club).

I wouldn't trust a councillor as far as I can throw them so we would have to go into anything like this with eyes open but if other towns and cities can help their clubs redevelop their grounds, why can't SBC as the benefits to the town as a whole are substantial.

We live in an Orwellian world...SBC are forever setting up consultancies or covert developers to manage our assets in and around the Town Centre....they provide the nuspeak bullshit about how great everything is and what plans they have, when everyone else can see a rapid degeneration, into some sort of dystopian hell. A smartly redeveloped CG on its current footprint would be a very good way to commence the regeneration of the Town Centre area.....therefore it will never happen.

[horlock07]

Exactly..... they won't let the club leave the town centre so they surely should be helping the club improve it so it doesn't look like an eyesore. The only part of the ground which doesn't need knocking down is the DR but that needs to be modified to open up the boxes hidden in the middle.

Rebuilding the arkells and the TE will dramatically improve the look and feel of the stadium and increase revenue in the ground and will be less costly than their other ideas with better ROI for the council.

I am going to do it again, and I feel filthy for it! 

At no point AFAIAA have the Council expressed any opinion ether way about the club leaving the town centre, merely that the sites put forward so far have been pretty crappy in planning and or environmental terms?

One could argue that the Council have a potential CoI in that if they give consent for a move they lose a tenant and thus revenue, not sure where this stands in planning terms as they have a potential financial interest in the scheme, its Friday afternoon and I cannot be arsed to look at the regs!

[horlock07]

The ruse, is to hand over our assets to their chums to run for a few years, when there's no profit than a change of use can be applied for. Therefore forget any shiny new stuff, but be prepared to fight for the CG we've got now, because it certainly shouldn't be taken for granted in the Post Brexit/Trump world.

Was it not designated as an AoCV and thus if the Council wish to dispose they legally have to offer to the community before hand, rather putting the mockers on any nefarious ideas they may have?

[Reg Smeeton]

Was it not designated as an AoCV and thus if the Council wish to dispose they legally have to offer to the community before hand, rather putting the mockers on any nefarious ideas they may have?

Yes, but would the Trust etc be able to find the money, within the 6 month window? 

[horlock07]

Yes, but would the Trust etc be able to find the money, within the 6 month window? 

To be honest in some ways it could be the best thing the Council could do for the Trust as it might galvanize the supporter base and possibly the wider town (you don't appreciate things until you lose them) plus make a few people put their money where their mouth is?

[garethgillman]

I am going to do it again, and I feel filthy for it! 

At no point AFAIAA have the Council expressed any opinion ether way about the club leaving the town centre, merely that the sites put forward so far have been pretty crappy in planning and or environmental terms?

One could argue that the Council have a potential CoI in that if they give consent for a move they lose a tenant and thus revenue, not sure where this stands in planning terms as they have a potential financial interest in the scheme, its Friday afternoon and I cannot be arsed to look at the regs!

They control planning regs so can veto any plans, so they can and will stop any development in their borough as the CG land is useless without the ground, and they can't sell it as it has a covenant on it so will do what they can to keep the club there earning them income from the land.

If I remember rightly one of the old plans was to build where the hospital is but was vetoed for being a brownfield site and not great for development........... but then they put a hospital on it........ As I said I don't trust them and they have rarely done anything to help the club while lining their pockets (councilors, what do you expect).

It would be beneficial for both the club and the town if they could both sit down together and do something with the ground.

[horlock07]

They control planning regs so can veto any plans, so they can and will stop any development in their borough as the CG land is useless without the ground, and they can't sell it as it has a covenant on it so will do what they can to keep the club there earning them income from the land.

If I remember rightly one of the old plans was to build where the hospital is but was vetoed for being a brownfield site and not great for development........... but then they put a hospital on it........ As I said I don't trust them and they have rarely done anything to help the club while lining their pockets (councilors, what do you expect).

It would be beneficial for both the club and the town if they could both sit down together and do something with the ground.

Its a quiet afternoon and I have been writing planning strategies all afternoon so am in the zone.

Even if SBC did refuse an application (incidentally they do not control planning policy and regulation it is either government imposed (various Acts of parliament and the riveting National Planning Policy Framework) or even the local policy is subject to independent (ish) government inspection before it is adopted) the applicant would be able to appeal to the Planning Inspectorate for an independent review of the case, PINS can grant permission on behalf of the secretary of state should they conclude the proposal is policy compliant and if SBC refused on unreasonable grounds the applicant can also go for reasonable costs leaving the Council with a massive bill to explain to the taxpayer. So they may be able to delay development but they cannot stop it, as noted above they may have to refer any decision to the Secretary of State due to a CoI anyway which may focus some minds prior to making a decision in the first place.

I cannot really comment on the hospital as I have not set foot in Swindon for 10+ years (although I suspect your mean greenfield as brownfield would be ideal for a new ground). What the club really need is a big industrial site to come on the market, suppose what happens with Brexit but how settled are Honda for instance as an entirely hypothetical example?

Entirely agree with your final comment, a quick google notes 'Forward Swindon' which if the club were my Client would be the first people I would be suggesting they sit down with.

And therein endeth the lesson on the tedium of the English planning system 

[garethgillman]

Its a quiet afternoon and I have been writing planning strategies all afternoon so am in the zone.

Even if SBC did refuse an application (incidentally they do not control planning policy and regulation it is either government imposed (various Acts of parliament and the riveting National Planning Policy Framework) or even the local policy is subject to independent (ish) government inspection before it is adopted) the applicant would be able to appeal to the Planning Inspectorate for an independent review of the case, PINS can grant permission on behalf of the secretary of state should they conclude the proposal is policy compliant and if SBC refused on unreasonable grounds the applicant can also go for reasonable costs leaving the Council with a massive bill to explain to the taxpayer. So they may be able to delay development but they cannot stop it, as noted above they may have to refer any decision to the Secretary of State due to a CoI anyway which may focus some minds prior to making a decision in the first place.

I cannot really comment on the hospital as I have not set foot in Swindon for 10+ years (although I suspect your mean greenfield as brownfield would be ideal for a new ground). What the club really need is a big industrial site to come on the market, suppose what happens with Brexit but how settled are Honda for instance as an entirely hypothetical example?

Entirely agree with your final comment, a quick google notes 'Forward Swindon' which if the club were my Client would be the firts people I would be suggesting they sit down with.

The council don't want the club out of the town as they rely on them for the rent on the land but also with footfall towards the ground, they will come up with any reason possible to stop the club leaving the current land but they couldn't stop them leaving the Swindon borough BUT would it be a good idea for the club to do that.

I don't remember that much but possibly greenfield.... both sound right to me as a layman 

forward swindon = SBC in yet another company so it's the same issue again but they are adamant on rebuilding the town centre but have an ugly lump of a stadium in the middle of it. The club have so much potential in a town of 200k+ but realistically they are being held back by a crappy stadium, it's an under used by the town. Look at Reading's, Worcester and Oxford (hotel and conference facilities), they have various facilities to build additional revenue to the club.

[Reg Smeeton]

forward swindon = SBC

 

 Sitting down with them should be a last resort.

[tans]

Trump just said in his inauguration he is buying and redeveloping the CG

[garethgillman]

Trump just said in his inauguration he is buying and redeveloping the CG

build a wall to keep out the scum? 

[garethgillman]

forward swindon = SBC

 

 Sitting down with them should be a last resort.

They need to sit down and work together if anything was too happen