Ground Redevelopment Or Never? And Left Behind!

[Peter Venkman]

The Opel Arena in Mainz is a fantastic staium but

1. can we afford £60m construction?
2. could we warrant a 34,000 capacity? could we warrant even a 15,000 capacity now?
3. who would fund it?
4. we don't even own the County Ground & land.
5. we don't have a large enough car park or currently even room for a bigger one.
6. the public transport in Swindon cannot sustain a stadium of that size without extra investment from the council, which with current spending limitation will never happen.

[Costanza]

I'm of the mindset that it'll never happen so if the ground is ever rebuilt it'll be a lovely surprise for me.

Have we been left behind? Yes and no.

[horlock07]

The Opel Arena in Mainz is a fantastic staium but

1. can we afford £60m construction?
2. could we warrant a 34,000 capacity? could we warrant even a 15,000 capacity now?
3. who would fund it?
4. we don't even own the County Ground & land.
5. we don't have a large enough car park or currently even room for a bigger one.
6. the public transport in Swindon cannot sustain a stadium of that size without extra investment from the council, which with current spending limitation will never happen.

Just to put a planning hat on for a minute.

5) as a town centre location we could probably argue a very low parking provision;
6) the Council would seek to fund this via a s.106 agreement with the stadium developer provding a large contribution, so could probably be achieved if the developer had deep enough pockets.

Not going to happen in my lifetime though I fear.

[Peter Venkman]

I'm of the mindset that it'll never happen so if the ground is ever rebuilt it'll be a lovely surprise for me.

Have we been left behind? Yes and no.

I think it would have been a different situation if when we got to the Premier League that we bought the Ground/Land from the council with the extra income.

But we didn't have the foresight/council willingness to sell, so we basically have no assets so are not viable for investment opportunities and have no way of creating new revenue streams away from "on the pitch" assets and matchdays.

Almost a hand to mouth existance. (or a hand to wallet existance for Mr Power if many on the fb fans page are to be believed)

[Peter Venkman]

Just to put a planning hat on for a minute.

5) as a town centre location we could probably argue a very low parking provision;
6) the Council would seek to fund this via a s.106 agreement with the stadium developer provding a large contribution, so could probably be achieved if the developer had deep enough pockets.

Not going to happen in my lifetime though I fear.

Indeed, I fear it won't happen in the next 10 to 20 years unless we get a new owner with endless pockets (which again won't happen).

[horlock07]

Indeed, I fear it won't happen in the next 10 to 20 years unless we get a new owner with endless pockets (which again won't happen).

I don't think they need to be that endless if the motivation was there from both the club and the Council, a good start would be two end stands, a tart up of the Arkells and something that makes money 24/7 like offices or a hotel.

Fleetwood lease from the Council and have managed to get somewhere with less than £10m spent? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highbury_Stadium_(Fleetwood) 

[horlock07]

I think it would have been a different situation if when we got to the Premier League that we bought the Ground/Land from the council with the extra income.

But taking note of our subsequent financial adventures how fucked would we have been if the club had also been lumbered with a bloody enormous redevelopment debt at those times, plus with our history of chancers over the last 20 years we would have been ripe for one of them to leave us in a Kassam situation?

Being devoid of assets has certain positives in the modern game, although clever chaps like Power can apparently strip what is not actually there?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

£60m seems bloody good value for a 34,000 seater stadium when you consider the Oakland Raiders are proposing to relocate their franchise to Vegas and build a new stadium for $1.9 billion 60,000 seater stadium.

Probably made of gold.

[Peter Venkman]

But taking note of our subsequent financial adventures how fucked would we have been if the club had also been lumbered with a bloody enormous redevelopment debt at those times, plus with our history of chancers over the last 20 years we would have been ripe for one of them to leave us in a Kassam situation?

When I said about buying the ground I did not actually mean that the previous incumbants already rebuilt the stadium just that we owned the stadium/land now so that IF we wanted to build/redevelop/sell then we would be in a better position financially now.

[Simon Pieman]

Here's how we should do the ground redevelopment:

https://twitter.com/Football__Tweet/status/819482275138207744

"Fortress County Ground"!!

I believe Gary Stanley suggested we build a wall around the County Ground to give the illusion of a new stadium many years ago!

[garethgillman]

Our problem is the council, Colchester council paid for theirs and use it as a community asset, if the council only put up half of the funds to rebuild the CG it would be a better investment than someo of their hair brained ideas they come up with, it will give the town a major boost of visitors, the area wouldn't look so down and the council would easily be able to get their money back with higher rent and more spending done by visitors.

Unfortunately the club is a poor investment in the council eyes and they would rather not deal with it, they stopped previous owners building elsewhere but won't help them smarten up the current one.

[horlock07]

When I said about buying the ground I did not actually mean that the previous incumbants already rebuilt the stadium just that we owned the stadium/land now so that IF we wanted to build/redevelop/sell then we would be in a better position financially now.

Apologies I did slightly misinterpret the comment, but the point remains - think how many houses diamond mike could have got on the site, or I dread to think what Jed could have used it for. 

Our problem is the council, Colchester council paid for theirs and use it as a community asset, if the council only put up half of the funds to rebuild the CG it would be a better investment than someo of their hair brained ideas they come up with, it will give the town a major boost of visitors, the area wouldn't look so down and the council would easily be able to get their money back with higher rent and more spending done by visitors.

Unfortunately the club is a poor investment in the council eyes and they would rather not deal with it, they stopped previous owners building elsewhere but won't help them smarten up the current one.

I am in no way defending Swindon Borough Council (I am presently (for the first time) dealing with them on a number of planning applications and they are one of the most unhelpful I have encountered in England and Wales so I am no fan!  )

However I just don't see what they stand to really gain from redeveloping the site, I am not sure if any more visitors would come to the town as would a new ground attract more away supporters (perhaps once for the 92'ers) equally as the main engagement directly is to the back of the DRS is it that much of a municipal eyesore?

If they put the rent up could we actually afford it unless crowds went up, I suspect its the state of whats happening on the pitch is whats keeping crowd low and even with a microbrewery and cheese tasting a new ground isn't going to spike things that much?

I suppose the key question how would the members feel about trying to justify throwing £15m at the scheme and explaining that to their constituents?

[Batch]

But taking note of our subsequent financial adventures how fucked would we have been if the club had also been lumbered with a bloody enormous redevelopment debt at those times, plus with our history of chancers over the last 20 years we would have been ripe for one of them to leave us in a Kassam situation?

Being devoid of assets has certain positives in the modern game, although clever chaps like Power can apparently strip what is not actually there?

or with the right people we could have been another Reading* or Swansea.

* yeah, until recently.

there's no real way to tell if we'd be better or worse off is there.

also, where there is a club there is a way to make cash. Ask Diamandis. it's just less attractive.

[garethgillman]

Apologies I did slightly misinterpret the comment, but the point remains - think how many houses diamond mike could have got on the site, or I dread to think what Jed could have used it for. 

I am in no way defending Swindon Borough Council (I am presently (for the first time) dealing with them on a number of planning applications and they are one of the most unhelpful I have encountered in England and Wales so I am no fan!  )

However I just don't see what they stand to really gain from redeveloping the site, I am not sure if any more visitors would come to the town as would a new ground attract more away supporters (perhaps once for the 92'ers) equally as the main engagement directly is to the back of the DRS is it that much of a municipal eyesore?

If they put the rent up could we actually afford it unless crowds went up, I suspect its the state of whats happening on the pitch is whats keeping crowd low and even with a microbrewery and cheese tasting a new ground isn't going to spike things that much?

I suppose the key question how would the members feel about trying to justify throwing £15m at the scheme and explaining that to their constituents?

A redeveloped ground would include:

- better facilities (hotel, conference rooms, boxes, restaurants)
- more seating and better facilities
- more (better) parking

So even if we didn't increase our tickets sold there would be more income from better facilities on match day and other days, the stadium is rarely used outside of game time, but if I put us up against someone like Worcester Rugby, there facilities are used a hell of a lot as they invested in lots of conference space for companies / events to use. I do a lot of business events and Swindon is craving for decent conference facilities for events, the only real "business show" happens at Steam and that's fricking awful but the size of Swindon and we have piss poor facilities.

These events get on average 5-10k attendees, mostly businessmen / women who would look at sponsorships inside the ground and using the facilities for their own events.

Lets put this in the councils view, 7k people coming to games, say 500 need to park = income, then they will likely buy food before and after the game, maybe stay at a hotel if it's a long drive (not many though). The council may not get much but the business rates of the businesses who rely on the football traffic. The club would also pay a higher rent as the maintenance of the ground will go down dramatically and there would be a lot more income so generates a higher rental).

Considering how much the council have wasted on stupid crap including the wifi scandal, the oasis and other stuff, surely putting £15m up to rebuild the CG would be a better use of tax payer money than other things they come up with wasting their budget.

[RobertT]

The Council did just spend 15million on a car park, and demolished another couple at the same time, so anything is possible.  The trick has always been that any development has always been approached from what it would do the for the Club, not the Council.  Given they can't even manage to develop their own land where they ran the sites though, I wouldn't hold your breath.  They've shown willing to pass off the buck on every other asset of community value they've had.