Scottish Independence

[ghanimah]

Tunnock's are supporting the No campaign, so I can still eat those guilt-free.

If the Yes campaign wins it, I look forward to the shit storm headed their way. There seems to be an awful lot of hope involved with them keeping the pound (from which they can fuck right off, independence means exactly that, cut the ties and go out on your own. Picking and choosing which bits you want from Britain is not the way to do it, thanks) and getting into the EU, despite the EU saying they don't want any new members any time soon.

I suspect they'll continue EU membership rather than leave - the issue will be fudged (Greenland remained members of the then EEC for some years after Home Rule from Denmark 1979). The question will be though whether Scotland retains the UK's opt outs, one of which is obviously the Euro. For continued membership Scotland could find itself having to sign up to the Euro instead of keeping the pound.

[Ardiles]

I would prefer the Union to remain intact but I understand entirely why Scots would wish to be self-governing and to distance themselves from Westminster control.  But, with independence comes great responsibility, and I don't think the extent of that responsibility has been clearly explained to the Scots voters.  If I was being asked to vote on something as important as this, I would want a clear, unequivocal statement of every one of the implications of a 'Yes' vote.  With only two weeks to go, I don't think the Scots have got that clarity yet, there are too many 'unknowns' and Salmond is effectively asking them to vote with their hearts and not their heads.  That doesn't seem to me to be a very good way to start.

Spot on.

[horlock07]

Not all in Scotland wear kilts or are even Scottish ! Some of us are ardent Town Fans!
Voting NO to keep my job thanks . Salmond is a prize arsehole who is currently tearing the country apart
Hope he gets what he deserves!

But I don't think Salmond feels he can lose....

People vote no and he is that plucky Scottish freedom fighter who put the scots destiny in their own hands which they failed to take up... people vote yes and he's the man who achieved independence! 

Actually wonder what his ideal outcome is, as a yes could unleash an entire shit storm which may upset his legacy and ego?

I don't have a strong opinion either way but have Scottish friends who are both sides of the argument and whilst normally very mild mannered it's all getting a bit unpleasant and personal already,  not suggesting a civil war but can see it getting rather unpleasant over next few months both before and after the vote.

[Reg Smeeton]

But I don't think Salmond feels he can lose....

People vote no and he is that plucky Scottish freedom fighter who put the scots destiny in their own hands which they failed to take up... people vote yes and he's the man who achieved independence! 

Actually wonder what his ideal outcome is, as a yes could unleash an entire shit storm which may upset his legacy and ego?

I don't have a strong opinion either way but have Scottish friends who are both sides of the argument and whilst normally very mild mannered it's all getting a bit unpleasant and personal already,  not suggesting a civil war but can see it getting rather unpleasant over next few months both before and after the vote.

Once the Yes vote,  has been secured, it will only be a matter of time before Salmond mounts a Putin style Ukraine campaign to reclaim Berwick.

[chalkies_shorts]

The best result for Salmond is a narrow loss. that way he doesn't have to deliver but can then screw the uk into further favours by threatening another referendum. Its fucking disgusting the more favourable terms the Welsh and Scottish get out of us already, prescriptions, tuition.   

[Batch]

The Barnett formula should be a national scandal imo. Not sure many people realise it exists.

[horlock07]

Once the Yes vote,  has been secured, it will only be a matter of time before Salmond mounts a Putin style Ukraine campaign to reclaim Berwick.

Berwick is still at war with Russia anyway.

[Reg Smeeton]

Berwick is still at war with Russia anyway.

Yes...think I've seen something about that on Coast.  Well Salmond is an admirer of Putin, as is Nigel Farage....given that Clacton-on-Sea looks like it wants to unilaterally cede from the EU, after the forthcoming bye-election, anything is possible.

[Reg Smeeton]

Squeaky bum time....the recent poll showing Yes need 3%, has put the frighteners on.  The Pound has dropped, Cameron has held his hands up and said "nothing to do with me gov" so wont resign, and the military top brass have woken up to the fact that their previous fiefdom will be fucked...with mutterings about Uncle Sam not being happy to lose strategic sites in Jockoland.

So talk of deals....we'll have a currency union if you keep Trident etc.

Yes is really a no brainer for the Sweaties, it's going to have a profound impact on the rest of the UK, more politically than economically.

Interesting times ahead....the next port of call, being the issue of the EU....my own view is that yes, will mean a staunching of the Tory right, and likely our closer integration with Europe.

[Ardiles]

Squeaky bum time....the recent poll showing Yes need 3%, has put the frighteners on.  The Pound has dropped, Cameron has held his hands up and said "nothing to do with me gov" so wont resign, and the military top brass have woken up to the fact that their previous fiefdom will be fucked...with mutterings about Uncle Sam not being happy to lose strategic sites in Jockoland.

So talk of deals....we'll have a currency union if you keep Trident etc.

Yes is really a no brainer for the Sweaties, it's going to have a profound impact on the rest of the UK, more politically than economically.

Interesting times ahead....the next port of call, being the issue of the EU....my own view is that yes, will mean a staunching of the Tory right, and likely our closer integration with Europe.

If it was, you would see a 100% lead in the polls for the Yes side.  Voting for independence would have both advantages and disadvantages.  The polls suggest that this issue is anything but a 'no brainer'.

[Reg Smeeton]

If it was, you would see a 100% lead in the polls for the Yes side.  Voting for independence would have both advantages and disadvantages.  The polls suggest that this issue is anything but a 'no brainer'.

It's a fair point, and ultimately the economic cost of independence will fall more heavily north of the border, therefore those with more to lose will be in the no camp, but it's a vote for the future and an independent Scotland will be better able to construct a society to meet the needs of the likely global issues.

[Batch]

So how much of the "No" vote do you think is simply a "get stuffed England" vote, rather than a seriously concidered vote?

One would hope that a Yes vote ultimately means a total separation, but I suppsoe its a near certainty that it will force compromises for both sides.

Wonder if Wales and N. Ireland will start to consider their place in the union. Presumably it would be fairly difficult for them to become self sufficient though.

[Bob's Orange]

So how much of the "No" vote do you think is simply a "get stuffed England" vote, rather than a seriously concidered vote?

One would hope that a Yes vote ultimately means a total separation, but I suppsoe its a near certainty that it will force compromises for both sides.

Wonder if Wales and N. Ireland will start to consider their place in the union. Presumably it would be fairly difficult for them to become self sufficient though.

Scotland has the oil which presumably can support it as an independent country.

Not sure leek power and the power of bigotry can support Wales and Norn Iron to be honest.

[Abrahammer]

3% is still quite a gap, will probably come down the the undecided vote on the day. People ultimately tend to play it safe when they are undecided and stick with what they know.

The Yes campaign will need to appeal to their sense of patriotism

[4D]

That's a point, what part of the seas and oceans constitute Scottish waters?