Scottish Independence

[dalumpimunki]

Wales is not a real country and has not been for hundreds of years, I really wish they'd come to terms with that. The English nation includes Wales. There was never a merging of two nations like there was with the Scotch, there was a simple conquest. There is no Welsh nation.

I'm intrigued. What in your mind constitutes "a real country". Having been conquered and ruled by a neighbouring foreign power for hundreds of years would mean a load of those former soviet republics would have to stop being so silly with their little flags and anthems, cluttering up European football tournaments and generally "pretending" to be nations as well. Those Ukainians should just let the Russian tanks roll in. After all they were a part of the Russian Empire or Lithuania or Poland, or the Austro-Hungarian Empire pretty much since the 12th century.

As for the conquest bit. You might want to check your royal lineages, because from what I remember  Wales was incorporated into the England fully sometime in the early to mid 16th century, when Elizabeth I was on the throne, and I'm pretty sure she was a descendent of Henry VII (Henry Tudor) who was more than a bit Welsh (descendant of one of the Welsh princes Rhys ap Gruffudd).

[Ardiles]

How is this a contradiction? 25  of the 28 NATO members have no nuclear weapons. Only France and the UK in Europe are nuclear powers. Scotland would be in the overwhelming majority.

I think the point here is that NATO currently relies heavily on France and the UK to provide the nuclear deterrent in Europe and, in the UK, that comes in the form of Trident which is based in the west of Scotland.  If an independent Scotland insisted on the dismantling of Trident (with its relocation to somewhere in England or Wales), the cost & disruption would be immense.  We would be weaker militarily...and while some would welcome that, the Americans certainly would not.

[kerry red]

Half the Jocks who say they are voting Yes will vote No in the privacy of the booth.

Fuck 'em

[Abrahammer]

Half the Jocks who say they are voting Yes will vote No in the privacy of the booth.

Fuck 'em

Most of the undecided voters will vote no, people stick with what they know rather than risk change when they are unsure.

Can't see the Yes campaign pulling it off

[jonny72]

I think the point here is that NATO currently relies heavily on France and the UK to provide the nuclear deterrent in Europe and, in the UK, that comes in the form of Trident which is based in the west of Scotland.  If an independent Scotland insisted on the dismantling of Trident (with its relocation to somewhere in England or Wales), the cost & disruption would be immense.  We would be weaker militarily...and while some would welcome that, the Americans certainly would not.

Pretty much Salmond's attitude to everything - wants the benefits but won't pay for it or have the inconvenience.

I'm sure it sounds good to all the Yes voters that are buying it, but when it comes to the actual negotiations for independence they will have a shock. The NATO membership could easily come down to them being given a choice of keeping the weapons or getting rid of them and not being allowed in to NATO. I don't see Scotland having many friends once they vote Yes.

[Mother Brown]

Most of the undecided voters will vote no, people stick with what they know rather than risk change when they are unsure.

Can't see the Yes campaign pulling it off

Ooo err

[Honkytonk]

I think the point here is that NATO currently relies heavily on France and the UK to provide the nuclear deterrent in Europe and, in the UK, that comes in the form of Trident which is based in the west of Scotland.  If an independent Scotland insisted on the dismantling of Trident (with its relocation to somewhere in England or Wales), the cost & disruption would be immense.  We would be weaker militarily...and while some would welcome that, the Americans certainly would not.

CIA will murder Salmond. Heard it here first folks. They've done their own before and now they're coming for the Scots.

[kerry red]

New SNP promotional video

[OrangeTransits]

If they vote NO. I wanna vote for English Independence. They can then have a YES whether they like it or NOT !!!!

[Summerof69]

I'm getting fed up with Salmond's total BS that I would not even give them the 'devo-max' option.

As Audrey said 'Fuck 'em'.

[Nemo]

The tone of this campaign is getting pretty scary now. 49% of people are going to be very, very fucked off come Friday morning and that is not good for anyone.

[Ironside]

You've probably picked up that I'm no fan of Scottish independence, and that I think Scotland, England, Wales & NI would fare better together in a federal, devolved state.  But I think it's also fairly obvious that Scotland could function as an independent state if it voted that way.

Wales, on the other hand, would really struggle.  They don't have the critical mass and they're bound far too closely to England for it to make any sense to separate.  (For what it's worth, I think Scotland is also bound too closely to England for separation to make real sense...but maybe not in such a cut & dried way as for Wales.)  Wales could never be truly independent from England, even if it tried to be politically.  Complete non-starter.  And I think support for independence there is running at about 10% anyway.

A British National Party policy.

They had a policy of a "federation of the British Isles" which included a united Ireland.

[ghanimah]

So why is the oil classed as belonging to Scotland?   

North sea oil currently belongs to the UK, although it's in large part regulated by the EU - the environment being an exclusive EU competence since 1986 (when Thatcher gave more powers away). If Scotland leaves the Union it also leaves the EU (albeit as I noted before with a likely fudge that they remain members until they work something out) and so will lose all its UK opt-outs and so-called 'privileges'.

Thus ultimately Scotland would have to reapply for membership under Article 48 of Lisbon. This would require agreement by all other "member states". Two factors thus come into play. The EU with its "local difficultly" with Russia needs energy security. Secondly, other members states are keen to quash the rise of their own local separatists movements, notably Italy, Spain and Belgium. Therefore Scotland is likely to be made an example of in the form of a very poor deal - third party access to Scottish territorial waters being one of them. As a notorious precedent of third party access there's UK fishermen...

That said it's unlikely to happen anyway as, in my view, the "no" vote will win quite comfortably, possibly by around the 60-65% mark.

[Frigby Daser]

A British National Party policy.

They had a policy of a "federation of the British Isles" which included a united Ireland.

No need to lower the tone.

[OrangeTransits]

The bookies aren't wrong normally. No is roughly 1/4 and yes is roughly 7/2. Across a number of bookmakers on oddschecker. So using those figures its gonna be roughly 70% NO....... 30 % YES.