Scottish Independence

[fatbasher]

Nationalism is a nasty right wing ideology, which tends to bring out the worst in people....and the Sweaties have got an unpleasant sectarian divide which could erupt.  But fair play to Salmond he's made it pretty clear that an independent Scotland would need some significant immigration to make it viable, so you'd be welcomed by the state, not sure about the people.

I've posted many times that I think the Sweaties have to go for this, and it opens up all sorts of fun possibilities....the first of which is Cameron being labelled as the man who broke the Union...him being the leader of the Conservative and Unionist party.

I'd expect a wave of English nationalism to follow, leading to a withdraw vote on the EU...which leads to the scenario of England going out and the Sweaties trying to go in... and join the Euro, have to accept Schengen etc.

What happens to Trident, though will be thing that causes most fun.....essentially the Sweaties don't want it...so where can we house these beasts in England? I'm not sure there is anywhere.

Uncle Sam won't be best pleased by this, but maybe England will apply to become the 51st State to cheer him up.

Nationalism is a nasty right wing ideology, which tends to bring out the worst in people....

Not like the soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba and some South American countries then?

[theakston2k]

What happens to Trident, though will be thing that causes most fun.....essentially the Sweaties don't want it...so where can we house these beasts in England? I'm not sure there

The irony is despite this Salmond is saying they'll still build all of our Naval fleet.... I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it so I'd like to think we'd move the builds to the likes of Barrow where the Astute class subs are built which could spell the end of their remaining ship yards such as Rosyth..... That'll go down well!

[jonny72]

I don't really give a fuck myself, though I wish they'd either fuck off and become independent or shut the fuck up about it.

I can see it turning to shit if they do go for it though. Can't see them getting EU membership easily, if only because Spain will block it to avoid a precedence being set. They ain't going to get the pound, only way it would work is with very strict rules which they won't agree to. Likely a number of big business will relocate, even if it's just their head office or legal home.

I'm not sure how hard the Conservatives are trying with the no campaign. Will be good for them if it happens, as it will reduce the number of MP's Labour have got giving them a better chance of a majority in the future.

[Reg Smeeton]

The irony is despite this Salmond is saying they'll still build all of our Naval fleet.... I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it so I'd like to think we'd move the builds to the likes of Barrow where the Astute class subs are built which could spell the end of their remaining ship yards such as Rosyth..... That'll go down well!

We can do the build in Barrow....but I'm don't know of anywhere suitable for housing the subs in England.  I'd imagine though we'd end up with Faslane, becoming something like Sevastopol or Guantanamo Bay....a military base in a foreign country. The Americans just wouldn't allow it to happen any other way.

[theakston2k]

We can do the build in Barrow....but I'm don't know of anywhere suitable for housing the subs in England.  I'd imagine though we'd end up with Faslane, becoming something like Sevastopol or Guantanamo Bay....a military base in a foreign country. The Americans just wouldn't allow it to happen any other way.

There's always Portsmouth I suppose, there's big plans for Barrow though as part of the Trident successor programme though so you never know. My point is though I'd like to think they won't be building our naval fleet if they go it alone.
I wonder if they'll want one of the new aircraft carriers for what will be their non existant Air Force....

[Reg Smeeton]

There's always Portsmouth I suppose, there's big plans for Barrow though as part of the Trident successor programme though so you never know. My point is though I'd like to think they won't be building our naval fleet if they go it alone.
I wonder if they'll want one of the new aircraft carriers for what will be their non existant Air Force....

I think one of the positives flowing from Sweatie independence, will be the break up of GB's oversized military...

[pauld]

Nationalism is a nasty right wing ideology, which tends to bring out the worst in people....

Not like the soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba and some South American countries then?

I don't think he said it was the only thing that did. Marxism is a nasty left-wing ideology which also tends to bring out the worst in some people. Happy now?

[fatbasher]

I don't think he said it was the only thing that did. Marxism is a nasty left-wing ideology which also tends to bring out the worst in some people. Happy now?

All about balance my dear chap rather than me being happy.

[fatbasher]

I think one of the positives flowing from Sweatie independence, will be the break up of GB's oversized military...

Nice try Reg.

[Reg Smeeton]

Nice try Reg.

In my opinion the narrative of the post war years which I've lived through (and there's been a lot of them) is a story of trying to find a place in the world order, against a backdrop of the break up of Empire.  The break up of the UK is in many ways a continuation of the process, and must inevitably lead to a further diminution of influence at the world table....for example how can UK sit as a permanent member of the Security Council at the UN in its reduced form?

The obvious answer is....it can't. I suspect even the likes of Cameron realise this, but can't quite bring themselves to face the reality, that our future military involvement should be as part of European force semi-independent of the US.

Although having said that Cameron has signed an agreement with the Surrender Monkeys establishing close military co-operation...we're going to develop an Anglo French drone..a lovely weapon.

[Saxondale]

I went to Scotland yesterday.

It was allright.

[Tails]

The thing that has really struck me in all this, is that when it comes to questions regarding the Pound and other assumptions Salmond has made a big part of his propaganda, I don't believe the Yes campaign really believe what they are saying. I've not been following it massively I'll admit that, but whenever I've seen interviews with Salmond, he sounds far too much someone who is trying to convince himself what he's saying is true. He's almost like a Town fan trying to convince himself that we can still make the playoffs.

I don't really know enough about the ins and outs to properly have an opinion. From what I've read I think that Scotland will be a hell of a lot worse off, and for that I think they'll vote with their heads rather than their hearts and remain with us. I can see a massive divide in Scotland coming either way though...

[4D]

Question is (bearing in mind I know nothing about this,  have read more on here than anywhere else, and don't have much, if any, interest).....

What is the main reason for wanting independence?
To break away from a union that is not wanted?
Or, because Scotland will benefit?
Or, something else?

I'm English,  but I have Irish , Scottish and I believe some Welsh roots too. I go to work,  I pay my bills,  I have to put up with the same shite that most people have to put up with,  and I have a social life. I can honestly say that my nationality rarely comes into my life, why should it?

[Reg Smeeton]

Question is (bearing in mind I know nothing about this,  have read more on here than anywhere else, and don't have much, if any, interest).....

What is the main reason for wanting independence?
To break away from a union that is not wanted?
Or, because Scotland will benefit?
Or, something else?

I'm English,  but I have Irish , Scottish and I believe some Welsh roots too. I go to work,  I pay my bills,  I have to put up with the same shite that most people have to put up with,  and I have a social life. I can honestly say that my nationality rarely comes into my life, why should it?

You've just got to look at football to see that the Sweaties have been in decline in the 21st century....since the tentative efforts by the Auld Firm to get their noses in the Prem trough were rebuffed, has finally convinced many north of the border, that we don't really want them, so they might as well go it alone.

They've also probably noticed that the Irish have done OK out of independence....having some very cosy arrangements in their favour, and as we did with the Sweaties over the Darien fiasco, doing the neighbourly and bailing them out when the shit hits the fan.  With the Irish recently to the tune of £17 billion GBP of yours and mine bill paying...

[Pax Romana]

I can't see them voting yes, there isn't a clear majority now and I think people naturally tend to get more cautious when they actually vote on the "better the devil you know" principle.

Whether a vote that included England would say yes is another matter.....

As already said somewhere in thread I think, the big problem for England would be the cast iron Tory majority that would be created in a UK without Scotland.