Bob Crow

[chalkies_shorts]

Chalkie I get that, but how much of that advice is ultimately for their own devices ?

probably a lesser percentage than big business bash them for their own devices. The simple fact is that Unions would not need to exist if businesses conducted themseves more ethically. Good old Arthur got a hell of al ot of stick for the miners strikes but documents are now being uncovered that showed he was right and Thatcher was totally dishonest. 

[sheepshagger]

I've got one of those supposedly magic pensions. I started paying my pension 26 years ago at 11% of my salary. It slowly went up to 13.75%. I am about to start paying 14% of my salary for the privilege. Thats 14% of my hard earned before I even get a sniff of it. Then the Gubbinsment take a not insignificant slice. The rises in my pension contributions have outpaced my pay increase so I am actually worse off than before the crash. Just like everyone else but the Bankers and the Grand High Fucky Mucks so, fuck off with all your bitter bollocks about public sector pensions. The teachers final salaray pension- what final salary is that based on then? Head Teachers and the like may have a good final salary but, your average teachers isn't paid a shitload.

Your average public sector worker spends their life being paid not a fantastic wage but contributing a good proportion of their income for a pension so that they can be comfortable in retirement. What the fuck is wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with it at all Fuzzy, and fair play to you and anyone else who has that luxury.  I'm not bitter at all about it - traditionally public sector workers choose to be paid a little less than private sector in real cash, which is made up by decent pensions/benefits etc.....

I have no problem with any of that

I have a problem when the whinging starts and the strikes happen and fuck everyone else around when it is completely unnecessary and in my opinion greedy.  Teachers are paid better in the uk than most other European countries, and also have better pensions than most, not to mention fucking long holidays etc..... Again I have no problem with that and would happily pay a little more income tax in order to pay for the best teachers we can get, thereby giving our next generation a better chance in life - what I don't like is as I said before, the unnecessary strikes and hypocrites

[Arriba]

Asking people to strike on their days off is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
Teachers work very hard and under pressure. Those who strike do not make the rules on taking kids out during term time either. Those rules come from above.

I needed my union when somebody fell from my lorry. I was blameless and followed correct procedure yet an attempt was made to make me the scapegoat. Without my unions help they may have got away with it.

[Honkytonk]

You are essentially tarring everyone with the same brush. Is it our collective responsibility to ensure the banks don't give that bloke just above the poverty line a loan? Everyone is within their rights to ask for a loan, and it's the bank's duty to tell them 'no, you can't afford it.'

By that reasoning it's the individual's fault for the economic crisis occuring- whether they took out a sub-prime loan or not. Which is obviously patent bollocks, no offence. Institutional atmospheres of an obsession with income over sustainability and stability, and, frankly, the general selfishness of people, is the main cause.

Absolving the cunts at the top of blame because Joe Average wants a house is utterly wrong.

Unions are great. Strikes are supposed to cause annoyance. That is, after all their purpose.

[Pete]

RIP Bob. Did a great job for his RMT members.

[fuzzy]

Nothing wrong with it at all Fuzzy, and fair play to you and anyone else who has that luxury.  I'm not bitter at all about it - traditionally public sector workers choose to be paid a little less than private sector in real cash, which is made up by decent pensions/benefits etc.....

I have no problem with any of that

I have a problem when the whinging starts and the strikes happen and fuck everyone else around when it is completely unnecessary and in my opinion greedy.  Teachers are paid better in the uk than most other European countries, and also have better pensions than most, not to mention fucking long holidays etc..... Again I have no problem with that and would happily pay a little more income tax in order to pay for the best teachers we can get, thereby giving our next generation a better chance in life - what I don't like is as I said before, the unnecessary strikes and hypocrites

The strikes aren't always about pay and conditions though are they? Teachers sometimes strike as the only way to protest about the next big fuckwit generated edict from Gubbinsment. All those smart ideas about making your foetus sit an exam to see just how wekll it is learning to shit on a potty instead of a nappy. Ideas spawned by 'experts' who have been about as close to teaching as I have to being an astronaut. They are striking to try and protect the future of their chatges.

Many a public sector job was easy to do before Gubbinsment started sticking their oar in and fucking thisng up. Unions have a place and it isn't always to call a strike to get their members better pay.

[sheepshagger]

The strikes aren't always about pay and conditions though are they? Teachers sometimes strike as the only way to protest about the next big fuckwit generated edict from Gubbinsment. All those smart ideas about making your foetus sit an exam to see just how wekll it is learning to shit on a potty instead of a nappy. Ideas spawned by 'experts' who have been about as close to teaching as I have to being an astronaut. They are striking to try and protect the future of their chatges.

Many a public sector job was easy to do before Gubbinsment started sticking their oar in and fucking thisng up. Unions have a place and it isn't always to call a strike to get their members better pay.

You might be right Fuzzy - unfortunately I have only really commented about 2 strikes, one of which is to do with teachers and hasn't even happened yet - the reason for the strike ?  Pay and pensions !!!!!

I am sure the unions do some things well, and in earlier posts I have completely acknowledged that.  My "beef" is the way they are hypocritical and the way they go about strikes.

No-one can tell me that 30% of a workforce voting to strike should be a good enough figure to gridlock a city like London

No-one can tell me that it's fair for me to be told "don't you dare let your child miss one day of school in years 10 and 11, it's just too important", and then go on fucking strike over pay and pensions and do exactly what they have told me shouldn't be done !!!

[sheepshagger]

You are essentially tarring everyone with the same brush. Is it our collective responsibility to ensure the banks don't give that bloke just above the poverty line a loan? Everyone is within their rights to ask for a loan, and it's the bank's duty to tell them 'no, you can't afford it.'

By that reasoning it's the individual's fault for the economic crisis occuring- whether they took out a sub-prime loan or not. Which is obviously patent bollocks, no offence. Institutional atmospheres of an obsession with income over sustainability and stability, and, frankly, the general selfishness of people, is the main cause.

Absolving the cunts at the top of blame because Joe Average wants a house is utterly wrong.

Unions are great. Strikes are supposed to cause annoyance. That is, after all their purpose.

No I'm not, not at all !  It is AS MUCH the individuals responsibility to know whether he/she can afford to take out a loan as it is the banks for giving it to them.  Unless we take some responsibility ourselves we are fucked - do we want the "nanny state" to take care of everything for us ?  Should I get them round to wipe my arse ?

No offense taken as it is not what I said at all - I said the individual has to take responsibility, I never once said the individual caused the economic crisis.  I believe that was down to a lot of things, but mainly (world wide) banks being greedy cunts and (locally) a bit of the same plus Blair/Brown being fucking clueless and toothless.

[sheepshagger]

Asking people to strike on their days off is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
Teachers work very hard and under pressure. Those who strike do not make the rules on taking kids out during term time either. Those rules come from above.

I needed my union when somebody fell from my lorry. I was blameless and followed correct procedure yet an attempt was made to make me the scapegoat. Without my unions help they may have got away with it.

I'm not asking people to strike on their day off - I am asking for them to be consistent - if they sit there in front of 300 people and tell them something and how important it is, I expect them to at least work on the same principle - I don't think that's too much to ask personally.

I also know they work hard, but I believe they are paid well for it with a LOT of benefits and perks thrown in.  I don't believe they have any reason at all to strike, and I don't think the general public is going to have much sympathy for them.....

[fuzzy]

The striking teachers are not telling you you can't take your child on holiday in term time. They are enforcing rules foisted on them by the Department for Education.

[sheepshagger]

The striking teachers are not telling you you can't take your child on holiday in term time. They are enforcing rules foisted on them by the Department for Education.

I didn't say they were ?  I am not talking about holidays in term time

I am talking about them telling me it is imperative that my child attends EVERY DAY during years 10 and 11, and that even 1 day out can cause problems with their GCSE's - a point made very clear to all parents of my child's school by the head, the year head and the tutor on separate occasions

Wouldn't you say it was fucking hypocritical to say this and then go on strike during term time, exactly the opposite of what they are telling parents is SO important ?

[fuzzy]

I didn't say they were ?  I am not talking about holidays in term time

I am talking about them telling me it is imperative that my child attends EVERY DAY during years 10 and 11, and that even 1 day out can cause problems with their GCSE's - a point made very clear to all parents of my child's school by the head, the year head and the tutor on separate occasions

Wouldn't you say it was fucking hypocritical to say this and then go on strike during term time, exactly the opposite of what they are telling parents is SO important ?

If your child misses a day in years 10 and/ or 11 whilst the others are in lessons, only YOUR child will be disadvantaged. If ALL children miss a day during years 10/ 11 then the teaching staff will structure things so the class as a whole makes up the missed study.

[sheepshagger]

If your child misses a day in years 10 and/ or 11 whilst the others are in lessons, only YOUR child will be disadvantaged. If ALL children miss a day during years 10/ 11 then the teaching staff will structure things so the class as a whole makes up the missed study.

Well fuck it then, why don't they go down to a 4 day week if everything will just be OK !

Why should my child miss out on a days education because the teachers are upset about pay and pensions -- that's right the teachers whose wages I help to pay ?

Why should my child then have to do extra to "catch up" on something they didn't want to miss in the first place but had no choice ?

This is where the unions are wrong and completely unhelpful

[fuzzy]

What else are they supposed to do then? Just suck it up and take a shafting?

I know, you have alluded that we are in difficult times and we are all supposed to be in this together and I agree. However, the problem with being a Public Service emplyee is, employers don't negotiate too well. Without industrial action, the shafting would happen on a regular basis and the public service employee would be treated more like shit than some of us already are.

Just so that you know, I am NOT a union member. I am not allowed to be. I often wish I could be.

[sheepshagger]

Suck what up ?

Take what shafting ?

Teachers in the UK are amongst the highest paid teachers in Europe - full stop !

Teachers have more holidays than any other profession - full stop !

Teachers have great pensions - full stop !

No, what they are supposed to do is get on with their job, and do what they signed up to do !

Has nothing to do with difficult times - they are well paid already !