Sale of the Club

[BrightonRed]

Isn't 25% an important number of shares to hold.  If my memory serves me correct, this is a level at which some sort of blocking can occur to certain decisions regarding a company.  If that is the case, it is an important snippet of info, because it suggests Black, while wanting out from financing the club, still has an interest in the long term so believes something may still be in the offing to recoup some of the gifted capital.

The passing of a special resolution requires not less than 75% of shareholders to be in agreement.

Obviously this would mean that a shareholding of anything over 25% was significant.

[RobertT]

And it does become siginificant because one of the things it means Black can block is a change to the Articles of Association, which covers:

"The Articles can cover a medley of topics, not all of which is required in a country's law. Although all terms are not discussed, they may cover:

the issuing of shares (also called stock), different voting rights attached to different classes of shares
valuation of intellectual rights, say, the valuations of the IPR of one partner and, in a similar way as how we value real estate of another partner
the appointments of directors - which shows whether a shareholder dominates or shares equality with all contributors
directors meetings - the quorum and percentage of vote
management decisions - whether the board manages or a founder
transferability of shares - assignment rights of the founders or other members of the company do
special voting rights of a Chairman,and his/her mode of election
the dividend policy - a percentage of profits to be declared when there is profit or otherwise
winding up - the conditions, notice to members
confidentiality of know-how and the founders' agreement and penalties for disclosure
first right of refusal - purchase rights and counter-bid by a founder."

As pinched from a quick search.

[Trashbat?]

I thought Black owned 98% of the club, surely that would leave him with only 23% if the consortium are buying 75% ?!

[BrightonRed]

At the risk of being pedantic it would need to be at least 25.01% (or any amount over 25%) for him to actually be able to block a proposed special resolution.

[pauld]

Agree with all the comments above (Batch, Flash, Stegenfreud), but the highlighted bit caught my eye.  And I'm actually very comfortable with this.  Of course, we have to go full tilt at promotion this season.  Right up there with just a third of the season to go; it would be madness not to.

BUT, let's suppose we don't make it - for what ever reason.  Given that as a starting point for 2013/14, I think I'd be fairly happy to see us maintain our position in League 1 for a few seasons [important rider coming up]...so long as the new owners were focussing their energies on implementing a stadium development plan; and one that is sufficiently ambitious (20,000 capacity minimum) that could lead to self-sufficiency in the Championship.

Reading and Swansea both had their new stadia before they started climbing the leagues (and were both attracting decent 5 figures crowds in the lower leagues immediately following their moves).  Get the stadium issue sorted - and sorted properly, and professionally (no half-arsed botched jobs like up the road) - and then in two or three seasons we will be leaving the lower leagues anyway.  It will just take a little time.

In the normal run of things I'd agree 100% Ardiles. There is one potential caveat that gives me pause - the conversion of the Championship to Premiership 2. While it might have been rejected last time it was put forward, it's not gone away, just been put on the back burner and there does seem to be a view within football that a split into a two-division Premiership, with the rump Football League joining with a now largely professional Conference to form a 3-division second tier professional league is coming. Although how long that 3-division rump FL will be able to remain professional is another matter.

And if/when that does happen, the two-division Premiership will pull up the ladder behind them - promotion will be restricted to one or two teams and the financial divide will be greater than ever. Getting out of the rump FL into the money league will then be very hard work, both in sporting and financial terms. So there is an argument for getting into the Championship now while we can before they cast anchor and sail away. I think this was the essential divide between the Fitton "sustainable club" model and the Wray "shit or bust" model. Not so much that Wray was reckless, more that he saw the Prem 2 thing as coming sooner rather than later and that if we missed the boat we might never be able to attract the finance required to redevelop or indeed achieve any of our other ambitions, on or off the pitch.

[Ardiles]

Hmmm.  Food for thought there!  Hopefully we'll soon get a professional redevelopment underway and promotion...rendering all of this academic!

[Trashbat?]

A gent called Brian Melzack was involved with Port Vale and Ameriturf (Gary Hooper), he is a property developer and 12 years ago tried to buy QPR with a consortium...the 5th member?

Brian Melzack was also involved with Perry Deakin at Port Vale, who as we know has been involved with Jed McCory in the past at Banbury!

[Reg Smeeton]

In the normal run of things I'd agree 100% Ardiles. There is one potential caveat that gives me pause - the conversion of the Championship to Premiership 2. While it might have been rejected last time it was put forward, it's not gone away, just been put on the back burner and there does seem to be a view within football that a split into a two-division Premiership, with the rump Football League joining with a now largely professional Conference to form a 3-division second tier professional league is coming. Although how long that 3-division rump FL will be able to remain professional is another matter.

And if/when that does happen, the two-division Premiership will pull up the ladder behind them - promotion will be restricted to one or two teams and the financial divide will be greater than ever. Getting out of the rump FL into the money league will then be very hard work, both in sporting and financial terms. So there is an argument for getting into the Championship now while we can before they cast anchor and sail away. I think this was the essential divide between the Fitton "sustainable club" model and the Wray "shit or bust" model. Not so much that Wray was reckless, more that he saw the Prem 2 thing as coming sooner rather than later and that if we missed the boat we might never be able to attract the finance required to redevelop or indeed achieve any of our other ambitions, on or off the pitch.

When you look at the Championship, even if we were to go up this season, we'd have little chance of doing anything, based on the current model of the club (I'm factoring in new owners here, who don't seem to be minted).....maybe a different model of community based semi professional football club is all the town can sustain.

[jonny72]

The problem is that the majority of clubs are living vastly beyond their means. If everyone was sensible and spent within their means (including people wanting to piss their money away on clubs, provided it's a gift and not a loan/debt) things would quickly re-balance. The main casualty would be the players who would get a 50% pay cut, they could cope (as they did before the massive spike in wages) and it's not like they're going to fuck off abroad as they would earn even less.

Don't think we've done enough to maximise our revenue from the current ground. Match day catering is terrible, if done properly it could easily raise a few grand extra a game meaning £100k extra a season - which is a start. Must be some way to add on some extra facilities to the DRS at a low cost - maybe chop down the trees to enable it if they're not protected. The Town End could be rebuilt cheaply to incorporate extra revenue streams.

But the main thing is we'd need to cut our player wage bill in half.

[Reg Smeeton]

The problem is that the majority of clubs are living vastly beyond their means. If everyone was sensible and spent within their means (including people wanting to piss their money away on clubs, provided it's a gift and not a loan/debt) things would quickly re-balance. The main casualty would be the players who would get a 50% pay cut, they could cope (as they did before the massive spike in wages) and it's not like they're going to fuck off abroad as they would earn even less.

Don't think we've done enough to maximise our revenue from the current ground. Match day catering is terrible, if done properly it could easily raise a few grand extra a game meaning £100k extra a season - which is a start. Must be some way to add on some extra facilities to the DRS at a low cost - maybe chop down the trees to enable it if they're not protected. The Town End could be rebuilt cheaply to incorporate extra revenue streams.

But the main thing is we'd need to cut our player wage bill in half.

The problem is the wage bill needs to be halved or cut further, but we'd still like to be competing in Div 3. If the wage bill was cut, this might not be possible, without gates taking a proportional hit...meaning a need to cut again etc etc.  A conundrum, no mistake. We've tried all sorts of solutions, without ever really getting much progress...

[Arriba]

Think we'd be left with the likes of Miles Storey and Nathan thompson if we went self sustainable. Low wages players and would have to bring youth through(if the club could afford a youth set up of course)  Season tickets would have to go up significantly too.

[fittons_coaching_badge]

So how strong is the case for saying football below say the championship should be part time?

[pauld]

When you look at the Championship, even if we were to go up this season, we'd have little chance of doing anything, based on the current model of the club (I'm factoring in new owners here, who don't seem to be minted).

You've kind of missed the point a bit Reg, although I agree we wouldn't be likely to tear up any trees. The point was more that there is some rationale to Wray's (apparent) "shit or bust" approach if you accept the thesis that Prem 2 is coming so it becomes all important to get on board and stay on board before the drawbridge is pulled up, because once it's pulled up, it will be umpty times harder to break into the gilded circle and things like stadium developments etc (at least on a scale needed to sustain a self-financing Championship/Prem 2 side) become commensurately harder (to the point of impossible).

[pauld]

The problem is the wage bill needs to be halved or cut further, but we'd still like to be competing in Div 3. If the wage bill was cut, this might not be possible, without gates taking a proportional hit...meaning a need to cut again etc etc.  A conundrum, no mistake. We've tried all sorts of solutions, without ever really getting much progress...

Sorry Reg I know it must look like I just logged in to argue with you but I really haven't honest! But, again, think you've missed jonny's key point

If everyone was sensible and spent within their means things would quickly re-balance

You're right about what would happen if we did it just by ourselves, jonny was suggesting (perhaps unrealistically) that ALL clubs need to do it - probably enforced by regulation.

[Family at War]

 AB can't own 25% as the consortium have 75 and there must be loads of people like me who have had shares handed down to them and added to them over the years. I have 150 so with other people we must account for 2% at least.He is retaining 15% from what I have heard.