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Author Topic: Whats wrong with football?  (Read 1629218 times)
pauld
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« Reply #1500 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 07:05:02 »

The thing that gets me, is that about 87% of the UK is white.
But over 25% of professional footballers are black. And that doesn't translate anywhere near into 25% of professional managers/coaches. Not saying that's solely because of racism but if you're going to throw figures around, at least use (slightly more) relevant ones.
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #1501 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 07:13:03 »

But over 25% of professional footballers are black. And that doesn't translate anywhere near into 25% of professional managers/coaches. Not saying that's solely because of racism but if you're going to throw figures around, at least use (slightly more) relevant ones.

How many of those are foreign nationals who go on to remain in Britain after their playing careers? Stats can mean anything you want.
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pauld
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« Reply #1502 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 07:25:16 »

How many of those are foreign nationals who go on to remain in Britain after their playing careers? Stats can mean anything you want.
I know, that was (kind of) my point. Throwing a "FACT!" into a discussion without the relevant context blurs rather than clarifies. And you're right, btw, whether those players wish to pursue a coaching career in England is a very relevant part of the context as will be a host of other factors, many of which will be overlooked until this is investigated and discussed properly. Which it isn't at the moment as it's just a polarised debate being characterised as the John Barnes/Sol Campbell whinging on the one hand  vs the "Shut up whinging, you're just shit and there's no problem with racism any more" ostriches with their heads in the sand and their fingers in the ear on the other.
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #1503 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 08:23:27 »

Do you genuinely believe that institutional racism is preventing black managers getting jobs?
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Peter Venkman
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« Reply #1504 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 08:40:05 »

Do you genuinely believe that institutional racism is preventing black managers getting jobs?
Careful, when I said exactly the same thing Ref Frog called me a racist.

I personally think its not racism its ability, but thats just me.
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« Reply #1505 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 08:40:32 »

Do you genuinely believe that institutional racism is preventing black managers getting jobs?

In a world where people like Sepp Blatter are in charge of Football's largest governing body, I don't think it's ridiculous to count it out.

Blatter likened to Jesus & Mandela http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/32342080
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Flashheart

« Reply #1506 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 09:02:17 »

Why does this alleged racism not apply to Chris Hughton? It's almost as if his race has nothing to do with it, but rather he gets jobs because he's good at his job. Fancy that!
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pauld
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« Reply #1507 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 10:00:51 »

Do you genuinely believe that institutional racism is preventing black managers getting jobs?
I have no idea. As I've made quite clear, I don't think the whole issue has been properly investigated well enough to allow a discussion to even take place. Mainly because it keeps getting framed in questions like this. Tbh, I suspect that the whole way football recruits is more at issue than racism per se (although there probably are individual cases of racial prejudice), as it's still way too much based on an Old Boy Network and "who you know".

A better question than looking at how many black players become managers would be how many become coaches, because that's the pathway. Is the pathway blocked at player-> coaches or coaches-> managers? And if so, in either case, why?
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herthab
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« Reply #1508 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 10:10:49 »

Based on no evidence at all I suspect that football is no more racist than society in general and just like society, there is racism. I find it difficult to believe that it is as prevalent as some are suggesting.

That is my ill informed opinion.
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« Reply #1509 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 11:27:40 »

Based on no evidence at all I suspect that football is no more racist than society in general and just like society, there is racism. I find it difficult to believe that it is as prevalent as some are suggesting.

That is my ill informed opinion.
I concur with your ill informed opinion.
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Peter Venkman
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« Reply #1510 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 11:29:20 »

I concur with your ill informed opinion.
I concur with your concurred opinion.
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #1511 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 12:06:55 »

I also concur.

I do wonder how many actually go on to get their badges though. And besides, there's a reason why Barnes and Ince don't get jobs, they're moaning shit cunts who're proven to be fucking crap.

I believe racism exists, but I also believe the colour of someone's skin wouldn't stop them becoming a manager. I think a lot of chairman would employ a disabled Nigerian lesbian openly known to have dabbled in a spot of murder and rape if it got his team promoted into "The Best League in the World™".
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4D
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« Reply #1512 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 12:58:17 »

Conkers - do people still play that?
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Red Frog
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« Reply #1513 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:06:21 »

Careful, when I said exactly the same thing Ref Frog called me a racist.

I personally think its not racism its ability, but thats just me.

Well, I don't want to do this whole debate again, since I thought we'd done it to death last time,
http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=44987.msg1290217#msg1290217
but I'm still uncomfortable with your (repeated) assertion that black footballers are only being denied jobs in management because only a very few have the ability. At best, from the regular insights we're given into the mentality of the football establishment, I'd say it's possible there is some racism involved.

What intrigues me more is why everyone always seems so keen to defend the consistently reputable, upstanding football establishment against these repeated claims of racism.
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« Reply #1514 on: Friday, April 17, 2015, 17:13:33 »

Well, I don't want to do this whole debate again, since I thought we'd done it to death last time,
http://thetownend.com/index.php?topic=44987.msg1290217#msg1290217
but I'm still uncomfortable with your (repeated) assertion that black footballers are only being denied jobs in management because only a very few have the ability. At best, from the regular insights we're given into the mentality of the football establishment, I'd say it's possible there is some racism involved.
So by me suggesting that very few have the ability to manage is me being a racist...ok then good reasoning.

I think very few WHITE ex footballers make good managers does that also make me racist against white people? I will never forget you calling me a racist even if you wish to brush it under the carpet. I am far from racist and do not take kindly to you calling me one.
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