Whats wrong with football?

[4D]

How about "Nothing is going to happen until people who are not the primary victims of racism stop trying to explain to people who are continually affected by racism in their daily lives what is and isn't racist"?

When are things going to improve then? I  thought people were expected to take their heads out of their arse and deal with this, but how if a certain percentage of the populous are not able to discuss it?

[Jimmy HaveHave]

So what if I offer a job to a white person over a black person simply because I felt the white person was better qualified?

The black person then tells me I am being racist.

Can I not object? Do I just have to accept it?

Of course not, that would be ridiculous and I don't think anybody here is suggesting that's the case. But it does show that context also needs to be applied to being told not to tell black people what racism is. It's not that black and white (no pun intended)

Digressing slightly but you never see a ugly lady behind the make up counter or in the expensive retail shops but you could never prove that they've been chosen for their looks

[pauld]

When are things going to improve then? I  thought people were expected to take their heads out of their arse and deal with this, but how if a certain percentage of the populous are not able to discuss it?

No-one suggested you can't discuss racism. The original post, which you objected to so I rephrased it, suggested that people who aren't the primary victims of racism should perhaps stop trying to explain to people who are what is racist. That doesn't stop you discussing it, does it? Just suggests you perhaps don't go into any such discussion with a preconceived view and maybe perhaps listen to the people who experience racism on a daily basis as to what that is like for them, the many different ways it manifests and how you might help avoid it.

[4D]

Of course, it's good to talk.

[Hunk]

I spent some time in Uganda when I was at University and walking around as a white guy you'd meet a barrage of the Bantu word 'Mzungu', which in general is used to mean 'white person' and to let other Ugandans know that there is somebody white nearby. Now, while it can be used as an insult, its very rarely is; there are very few white people in a country like Uganda and its almost an expression of surprise (omg, a white guy, soapy tit wank, well I never!). My point is that it can be ok, given some contexts, to use someone's skin colour to identify them. Certainly neither I or any of my fellow travellers felt for a split second that anybody was being racist towards us. Now I'm not saying that it is ok in the context of last night's game, I'm not sure yet. I wouldn't be surprised if something else comes out to explain events And as others have pointed out, it's very difficult for us as English speakers to infer the intention of speakers of another language. Direct translations are pretty much useless in this regard, as the literal meaning of a word isn't necessarily how it is used

[Flashheart]

people who aren't the primary victims of racism should perhaps stop trying to explain to people who are what is racist.

You've repeated this without answering my question above.

[4D]

Whether we like it or not we are categorized as humans by ethnicity, the "IC" identity codes that are used to describe someone is an example. Is that racist or outdated? How do we determine someone's visual characteristics without some degree of description? Going back to the original debate regarding the 4th official, he could have said second guy on the left, considering the officials could all see the benches.

[suttonred]

I was racially abused twice in 3 hours earlier this year by 2 seperate black guys. Reaction to it amongst colleagues was laughter. It's not nice who ever its aimed at I can tell you.

[4D]

Had it in London and Lyon, violence happened.

[Hunk]

I was racially abused twice in 3 hours earlier this year by 2 seperate black guys. Reaction to it amongst colleagues was laughter. It's not nice who ever its aimed at I can tell you.

I have a (white) postie friend who works in Aston, and he is racially abused on a despairingly regular basis. There's a belief in some corners of the internet that white people cannot be racially abused  but in real life this is patently untrue

[singingiiiffy]

It's all well and good saying you cant be offended because it was said to you but do we have to accept that if someone is offended that they correct?

he could have said 2nd person on the left but why is it an issue in an identification context to say the black person?

do the police not identify by skin colour on radio communication? black lives matter but you cant say the word.

[pauld]

You've repeated this without answering my question above.

I didn't see your question. What was it?

[pauld]

black lives matter but you cant say the word.

Clearly bollocks.

[Flashheart]

I didn't see your question. What was it?

So what if I offer a job to a white person over a black person simply because I felt the white person was better qualified?

The black person then tells me I am being racist.

Can I not object? Do I just have to accept it?

Of course not, that would be ridiculous and I don't think anybody here is suggesting that's the case. But it does show that context also needs to be applied to being told not to tell black people what racism is. It's not that black and white (no pun intended)

[pauld]

So what if I offer a job to a white person over a black person simply because I felt the white person was better qualified?

The black person then tells me I am being racist.

Can I not object? Do I just have to accept it?

Of course not, that would be ridiculous and I don't think anybody here is suggesting that's the case. But it does show that context also needs to be applied to being told not to tell black people what racism is. It's not that black and white (no pun intended)

Think you answered your own question didn't you? As you say, of course context needs to be applied.

This specific example is explicitly covered by legislation, so long as you can show that you gave the job to the better candidate, irrespective of colour, there isn't a problem. But until the legislation, it was commonplace for superior candidates to not be offered the job just because of their colour. There's evidence that there is still an issue of conscious or unconscious "screening" of CVs on the basis of the perceived ethnicity of the candidate based on their name. There was a report out about it recently.