Whats wrong with football?

[Batch]

Trying to justify this is ridiculous. Is the person racist? Who knows.

Justify what? We are second guessing context and coming up with different answers.

Like it or not I think this type of debate is needed in order to ultimtely rid us of racism.

In my opinion at some point we need to leave history behind. Not ignore, certainly learn from it - but let it go. We need to get everone using a "cunt scale" (tm) rather than skin colour to judge people. I hope this is possible one day. I don't know if it truely is in my lifetime.

[pauld]

Is ‘black’ now a derogatory term?

No, you've missed the point. Rather well explained by Dave's post

Hmmmm, I think I’d probably define someone by their easily identifiable name or number in that scenario rather than their skin colour

Respectfully disagree on the baldness comparison. Bald people haven’t been historically (and currently) treated the same as people of colour. If the descendants of bald people had been sold as slaves, removed of all defining characteristics, referred to solely as numbers and treated like cattle, with the only requirement to be treated that way to have a lack of hair, I would think there may be a stronger reaction to being referred to being called bald

Same applies for referring to people as ‘the white guy’

Is it the most egregious case of racism you’ll ever see? No.
Was it deliberately confrontational? Probably not.
Is is symptomatic of an unconscious racial bias that exists and which lets more egregious, confrontational forms of racism to exist and therefore should be stamped out from common culture as a stepping stone to tackling the more harmful instances? Yes

[brocklesby red]

Trying to justify this is ridiculous. Is the person racist? Who knows. Did Webo find the phrase to be racially aggravated. Yes.

Let's not tell people affected by racism what is and isn't racism.

Exactly this, that’s why there should be better representation across the FA, UEFA,Fifa etc.
If nothing changes, the same mistakes will continue to be made, deliberately or accidentally

[4D]

Have fat people a history of being dehumanised and treated as slaves?

Thing is Dave ALL races have at some point.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

But nothing is changing. It’s all well and good having slogans - Kick It Out, etc - and then stigmatising anyone who has perceived to have stepped out of line.

People who just moderate their language aren’t changing their thoughts - they are just too scared of expressing them.

[pauld]

Thing is Dave ALL races have at some point.

Ah well then fuck it, let's not bother with tackling racism.

[Flashheart]

It really doesn't help to go implying that non-racists are racists and/or ignorant just because they don't agree with your idea of what racism is - which has happened several times in this thread.

[horlock07]

Like it or not I think this type of debate is needed in order to ultimtely rid us of racism.

The problem is the debate never goes anywhere, this is the umpteenth time that this matter has reared its head on here and we still have the same outdated nonsense (often poorly hidden while dancing on a pin) being raised by the same people, now either they are deliberately missing the point (which I suggest is the case in some cases) of they just don't bother to even consider that they might be wrong (as might I)

I hate to bring it back to Brexit but one of the key outcomes of that was a realisation that how poorly informed many are regarding history and basic economics, one only has to see the way that the government have tried to invoke the war with 'V Day' regarding the vaccinations to see how easily led they consider many of the population can be by invoking jingoistic tropes.

Long and short is, to use racism as an example, kids are not born racist, but they get it from somewhere and whilst many like to witter on and on about how dreadful the education system is they can only do so much, the tropes and prejudices of our succeeding generations are broadly down to what they see and hear their parents and grand parents saying and doing, possibly along with what they are exposed to in life, for instance from personal experience those of us who escaped West Oxfordshire at 18 seem to have a much more varied view of the world than those who still live there and socialise with those they went to school with. I know its simplistic but that's only my experience.

Ultimately nothing is going to happen until white people stop trying to explain to black people what is and isn't racist.

[4D]

Ah well then fuck it, let's not bother with tackling racism.

Where did I say that? Stop being so easily offended

[Bennett]

Thing is Dave ALL races have at some point.

Could you expand on this point and explain how it relates pls?

[4D]

Ultimately nothing is going to happen until white people stop trying to explain to black people what is and isn't racist.

Why have white people always got to be singled out? Damned if you do damned if you don't.

[4D]

Could you expand on this point and explain how it relates pls?

Try reading Dave's post

[horlock07]

Why have white people always got to be singled out? Damned if you do damned if you don't.

What damned if you try and tell someone how to react to something you have never experienced yourself or damned if you don't?

[pauld]

Why have white people always got to be singled out? Damned if you do damned if you don't.

How about "Nothing is going to happen until people who are not the primary victims of racism stop trying to explain to people who are continually affected by racism in their daily lives what is and isn't racist"?

[Flashheart]

So what if I offer a job to a white person over a black person simply because I felt the white person was better qualified?

The black person then tells me I am being racist.

Can I not object? Do I just have to accept it?

Of course not, that would be ridiculous and I don't think anybody here is suggesting that's the case. But it does show that context also needs to be applied to being told not to tell black people what racism is. It's not that black and white (no pun intended)