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Author Topic: England v Italy match thread.  (Read 69711 times)
DMR

« Reply #180 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 10:16:20 »

Hahahahahaha
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jonny72

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« Reply #181 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 13:07:35 »

The simple reason for why we're shit and never win anything is that we are crap at penalty shoot outs. If we can sort this out we will win tournaments, the facts speak for themselves....

Germany have won 5 penalty shoot outs (out of 6), going on to win two trophies.
France have won 3 (out of 6), going on to win one trophy.
Italy have won 3 (out of 7), going on to win one trophy.
Spain have won 3 (out of 6), going on to win one trophy.
England have won 1 (out of 7), going on to lose in semi.
Holland have won 1 (out of 5), going on to lose in semi.

If we had won 3 or 4 of our penalty shoot outs we would have won at least one trophy as a result. Fact.
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« Reply #182 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 13:28:08 »

If we had won 3 or 4 of our penalty shoot outs we would have won at least one trophy as a result. Fact.

The two times you lost in the shootout to us, you might well have won the competitions - esp EM1996

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« Reply #183 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 16:25:51 »

The two times you lost in the shootout to us, you might well have won the competitions - esp EM1996



I would have said esp. 1990 as Argentina were very beatable.
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« Reply #184 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 16:34:14 »

The simple reason for why we're shit and never win anything is that we are crap at penalty shoot outs. If we can sort this out we will win tournaments, the facts speak for themselves....

Germany have won 5 penalty shoot outs (out of 6), going on to win two trophies.
France have won 3 (out of 6), going on to win one trophy.
Italy have won 3 (out of 7), going on to win one trophy.
Spain have won 3 (out of 6), going on to win one trophy.
England have won 1 (out of 7), going on to lose in semi.
Holland have won 1 (out of 5), going on to lose in semi.

If we had won 3 or 4 of our penalty shoot outs we would have won at least one trophy as a result. Fact.

Ludicrously, there's an element of truth in this....the Spanish have a terrible record v Italy, they dislike the Italian cynical approach to the game, and haven't managed to beat them so far in this Euro. They reckon it was beating them on pens in Euro 2008, which allowed them to get the monkey off their back about being perennial underachievers, and go on to win a Euro and a WC.
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« Reply #185 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:02:49 »

I would have said esp. 1990 as Argentina were very beatable.

Not with Nestor Lorenzo marshalling the defence they weren't. Alright, he was marshalling from the bench but hey ho.
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jonny72

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« Reply #186 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:40:18 »

Ludicrously, there's an element of truth in this....the Spanish have a terrible record v Italy, they dislike the Italian cynical approach to the game, and haven't managed to beat them so far in this Euro. They reckon it was beating them on pens in Euro 2008, which allowed them to get the monkey off their back about being perennial underachievers, and go on to win a Euro and a WC.

Penalties are a lottery so you have to ask why we lose so many. I don't think it's because we're inherently bad at taking penalties, the problem for me is that our players lack confidence and bottle it. You can go on about coaching, youth development, fatigue and whatever but until our players get the confidence level that German players have we're going to continue being shit and under achieving.

If I was Hodgson my first priority would be sorting out the mental state of our players. Get in a team of the best sports psychologists and get them working with our top 40 players and then include it on an ongoing basis as part of the training.

I'd probably get all the main media in the country together as well to see what could be done to sort out all the negative press and turn it round in to positive and supportive coverage. Don't think this would be too difficult as the media can be bought if the right package is on the table.

The final thing I'd do is to increase the penalty shoot outs in domestic competitions to give players more real experience of them. Maybe have a penalty shoot out before every cup game, rather than just at the end of a draw. Will stop both teams being happy holding out for penalties as one of them will know they've already lost if it goes that far, plus it will give players more experience.

It does sound stupid but the facts speak for themselves, we need to become the best at penalty shoot outs if we're ever going to start winning international tournaments.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:43:40 by jonny72 » Logged
adje

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« Reply #187 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:45:33 »

What we need is better coaching at a young level.Everyone was banging on about we are crying out for a player like pirlo,we got one.

Its a fair point but I reckon there is too much coaching at a young level-kids should be just running around up the park with a ball at their feet,preferably playing with and against the bigger boys-that teaches you how to enjoy the ball and keep it.
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« Reply #188 on: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 17:50:28 »

Penalties are a lottery so you have to ask why we lose so many. I don't think it's because we're inherently bad at taking penalties, the problem for me is that our players lack confidence and bottle it. You can go on about coaching, youth development, fatigue and whatever but until our players get the confidence level that German players have we're going to continue being shit and under achieving.

If I was Hodgson my first priority would be sorting out the mental state of our players. Get in a team of the best sports psychologists and get them working with our top 40 players and then include it on an ongoing basis as part of the training.

I'd probably get all the main media in the country together as well to see what could be done to sort out all the negative press and turn it round in to positive and supportive coverage. Don't think this would be too difficult as the media can be bought if the right package is on the table.

The final thing I'd do is to increase the penalty shoot outs in domestic competitions to give players more real experience of them. Maybe have a penalty shoot out before every cup game, rather than just at the end of a draw. Will stop both teams being happy holding out for penalties as one of them will know they've already lost if it goes that far, plus it will give players more experience.

It does sound stupid but the facts speak for themselves, we need to become the best at penalty shoot outs if we're ever going to start winning international tournaments.

Great points as usual J72 but I dont agree penalties are a lottery-they are a test of nerve and skill as you later point out.
« Last Edit: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 16:10:36 by adje » Logged

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« Reply #189 on: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 19:50:55 »

England's 0-0 draw with Italy not looking quite so shit at the moment Smiley
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« Reply #190 on: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:40:22 »

England's 0-0 draw with Italy not looking quite so shit at the moment Smiley

Especially now....
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« Reply #191 on: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:42:36 »

England's 0-0 draw with Italy not looking quite so shit at the moment Smiley

It makes you wonder 'what if' had we won the penalty shootout?
« Last Edit: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:58:35 by joteddyred » Logged
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« Reply #192 on: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:45:26 »

It makes you wonder what if had we one the penalty shootout?

Won !!!
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« Reply #193 on: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 20:54:07 »

Have you lot lost your memories? England played one decent side this tournament and were thoroughly out played. Not sure where this new found optimism comes from.

Although I will say I think Sunday's match would have been entirely different had england conceded in the first half, as it'd have meant you would have had to try and get something out of the match. The longer it went on goalless the more backs against the walls it became.

So maybe if you'd won on penalties, and then conceded early on, maybe england would have played alright.

But then again, if my auntie had bollocks, she'd be my uncle.
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« Reply #194 on: Thursday, June 28, 2012, 21:00:18 »

Won !!!

Amended, wasn't thinking straight as have one eye on the tennis.
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