Managerial Merry-go-round 2021-2022; sack, shuffle, repeat

[Reg Smeeton]

I'm sure that some will be kicking off that we should have appointed Ardley, but you can guarantee that some of those same people would have been kicking off if we'd done just that.

Probably only Bambi.

In the scheme of things sacking Brown, was fair enough, although given we'd beaten Notts and York, I'd have thought a couple more games would have been acceptable.  Appointing Wellens, is fair enough, but he will need support, and this is where I depart, Hunt as his cone carrier.

More or less staright away he's saying he needs an experienced head in to help..... this is our FL status that Power is fucking about with here...

[Peter Venkman]

Ardley would certainly not been on my list of possibles, as FH says record wise its not a lot better than Wellens.

I personally would have preferred an ex international footballer embarking on a brand new career after getting his coaching badges, like Parker at Fulham (a good shout from SY last year as hes just taken over as assistant at Fulham) or in the mould of Gerrard at Rangers. A player who had a grounding in coaching for a year but who is well respected and has done it at the highest level.

But, we have Wellens, so its immaterial really. I unlike some Town fans, am not going to get straight onto his back, its going to take time to get this club right on the pitch. Hes doing the right thing in appointing an experienced coach (in the next week or so apparently) who will help him come to terms with our current shambles onfield.

No idea who the coach is but its a "top coach" according to Wellens on Saturday.

[pauld]

I personally would have preferred an ex international footballer embarking on a brand new career after getting his coaching badges, like Parker at Fulham (a good shout from SY last year as hes just taken over as assistant at Fulham) or in the mould of Gerrard at Rangers. A player who had a grounding in coaching for a year but who is well respected and has done it at the highest level.

Harry Kewell then?

[Peter Venkman]

Harry Kewell then?

He did OK at Crawley, I wanted a brand new manager who has not been tested yet. But in that mould yes just not one that has tried previous.

In many ways Taylor wouldn't have been a bad shout but I would have preferred a player with more international experience.

[Bogus Dave]

Why international experience, out of interest??

You look at ‘successful’ managers in recent years, and it seems there is less and less a correlation between being a high profile player (or even much of a player at all) and being a good manager. That’s even if there was much of a correlation at all

The need for a ‘name’ has always struck me at being a comfort blanket for the fans - it has little to no bearing on the success as a manager (not a dig PV)

[Peter Venkman]

It probably is a bit of a "comfort blanket" thing with me. I think they tend to have better connections and often a better more professional outlook which often comes through in interviews with the press.

Also they have a higher "prestige" as it were and fans/players look up to them more if they have actually achieved success in the game at the highest level.

Also my first experience of a poor manager with lower league playing experience who had just taken his coaching badges was Ken Beamish, which (to all apart from Reg) condired a failure and then we followed it up with Macari, Ardiles, Hoddle and McMahon who all had the required top level experience and they all had a fair amount of success so I judge based upon that in my own experience.

Obviously thats not always the case, with many contradictions but thats just how I personally feel.

[Reg Smeeton]

It probably is a bit of a "comfort blanket" thing with me. I think they tend to have better connections and often a better more professional outlook which often comes through in interviews with the press.

Also they have a higher "prestige" as it were and fans/players look up to them more if they have actually achieved success in the game at the highest level.

Also my first experience of a poor manager with lower league playing experience who had just taken his coaching badges was Ken Beamish, which (to all apart from Reg) condired a failure and then we followed it up with Macari, Ardiles, Hoddle and McMahon who all had the required top level experience and they all had a fair amount of success so I judge based upon that in my own experience.

Obviously thats not always the case, with many contradictions but thats just how I personally feel.

Managers who can make a silk purse out of sow's ear, are very rare.... Beamish without being great operated under the same sort of low budget that Brown/Wellens are operating under.... his side were considerably better than the current version.

First season Macari operated under the same sort of constraints, and he did no more than OK.  It was when he could acquire better players through the illegal payments that we started to motor... this process then seeded the following years, including McMahon when we continued to spend money we didn't have... until the implosion.

Dropping a newbie name from the top flight into our current shit storm, would probably prove disastrous.... at least Wellens, does have a bit of experience of working at a basket case club involved in a relegation battle,  and did seem briefly to improve Oldham's lot....if he can get us to 50 points come May, he'll have done a good job.

[Batch]

Dropping a newbie name from the top flight into our current shit storm, would probably prove disastrous.... at least Wellens, does have a bit of experience

Struggling to see much difference myself.
But I don't see much point appointing a "name" manager without dosh to back it up. Unless they were a half decent forward that could be player manager that is.

[Panda Paws]

Without even getting into why you'd want someone who's never managed, it's not 1992. Why would an ex international recently retired player want to manage Swindon?

Gerrard and Lampard walked into jobs that are realistically in the top 25 in the UK.

[BambooToTheFuture]

Without even getting into why you'd want someone who's never managed, it's not 1992. Why would an ex international recently retired player want to manage Swindon?

Gerrard and Lampard walked into jobs that are realistically in the top 25 in the UK.

Ahh we could also say "Why wouldn't they?"

Realistically - Failing at STFC as your first gig wouldn't be that damaging.

Failing at Rangers/Derby or any other big club, with big fanbase and very big expectations, would be incredibly damaging.

Of course its risk/reward. The risk of disappearing or becoming an annoying TV pundit is great but the reward of course is huge. Say it with me... "YUGE" 

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Any ‘name’ would be looking for a certain budget level to at least give them a fighting chance of success.

We used to be a club with potential - now we’re just the same as all the other bollicky buff clubs going nowhere

[Costanza]

If a modern day elite player wanted to manage and failed at a L2 job, I think he'd struggle to get another gig higher up.

But if he failed in The Championship then I'd say the loving embrace of a L1/L2 clubs bosom wouldn't be too far away.

That's if they really wanted to manage.

[DiV]

Ardley actually has a (very) slightly worse record statistically than Wellens, and not much better than Brown's. I'm sure many would say that Ardley was working under tough circumstances toward the end of his time at Wimbeldon, but the same could definitely be said for Wellens for ALL of his time at Oldham. Yes, Ardley has had some success, but that was with a team that was at least competitive at its level at the time. Wellens has not yet had such an opportunity, asides from a single game with us.

Wellens would not have been my choice but, if people are going to go by statistics, then they should not go with Ardley either. If people want to argue that statistics mean nothing without context then I would agree. But the same argument would apply to all appointments... Including Wellens'.

I'm sure that some will be kicking off that we should have appointed Ardley, but you can guarantee that some of those same people would have been kicking off if we'd done just that.

Whilst I wouldn’t have wanted Ardley here & it kind of backs up point.
The main statistic missing is Ardley has managed 326 games!


It’s like saying Francis Jeffers and David Nugent are England’s best strikers as they have the best goals to game ratio

[Flashheart]

Whilst I wouldn’t have wanted Ardley here & it kind of backs up point.
The main statistic missing is Ardley has managed 326 games!


It’s like saying Francis Jeffers and David Nugent are England’s best strikers as they have the best goals to game ratio

I agree 100%.

Wellens' career stats represent a very small sample size and are prone to fluctuations either way, whereas Ardley's stats are more likely to be stable. The stats suggest that Ardley is a 33.5% manager more so than Wellens. Where Wellens is remains to be seen (they could go either way)

[tans]

Sol Campbell gets the Macclesfield job.

I give it 12 games.