Bit of a hoo-haa down in london

[leefer]

True, which is a shame as the AV election is something I'd actually be vaguely positive about. Sadly, if it's sold as a referendum on Nick Clegg then "Yes" will be lucky to make it into double figures.

I just don't understand why the Lib Dems would allow such a divisive issue to happen so soon on the legislative agenda, surely they'd spend the first year on issues where they agree with the bloody Tories at least?

And also, I'd love to have heard what Charles was saying when that happenned.

Erghh agh......ummm couldn't the blighters have used a darker shade of grey....darned daimler could do with a new coat of paint.

[Nemo]

Surely "I do hope those are organic tomatoes" ?

[Crispy]

Bunch of tossers.

[ghanimah]

True dat, leefer. And the Lib Dems have got fuck all chance of persuading anyone to vote for PR/AV in the referendum on reforming the voting system - why would anyone believe a single word that comes out of of their mouths after this? The Tories have done Clegg like a kipper, the naive little twat

Not the Tories, Clegg's done himself up like a kipper, the Lib Dems have always promised the world knowing they won't be in a position to ever deliver...then ooops they found themselves precisely in that position.

Anyone who followed the utter fucking farce that was the Lib Dem's policy on a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty knows that recent events are no surprise at all. They've always been two-faced duplicitous bastards.

[pauld]

Not the Tories, Clegg's done himself up like a kipper, the Lib Dems have always promised the world knowing they won't be in a position to ever deliver...then ooops they found themselves precisely in that position.

Anyone who followed the utter fucking farce that was the Lib Dem's policy on a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty knows that recent events are no surprise at all. They've always been two-faced duplicitous bastards.

Yes, I didn't put it very well. All the Tories have done is given him enough rope - he's been undone by his own naivety and desparation for any kind of sniff at power. The irony is that the Lib Dems were supposedly sold on the coalition with the promise of finally getting a crack at their beloved referendum on voting reform. Which thanks to the trade-offs they've had to make to get it, and as you say the duplicitousness they've shown in doing so, will sink without trace. As will they at the next set of by-elections, local elections and general elections. And of course any time the issue's raised for the next couple of decades, it will be "Well, we had a referendum on that and you got whupped" when in practice it will be a referendum on Clegg and their performance in the coalition. They've shot their own sacred cow for a generation at least.

[Sippo]

These protestors are still scum in my eyes. I'm not a big fan of the royal family, but attacking them is just wrong.

At the end of the day, further education is an option. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't go. You don't have to pay anything until you earn over £21k pa. If you have a year out, or start a family then you don't have to pay anything. Just fucking grow up. The country is struggling financially, and things need to be done. It's affecting us all.

[Ardiles]

I do have a lot of sympathy for the Lib Dems.  They were faced with three choices in May...coalition with the Tories, coalition with Labour or continue to exist as a principled but permanently powerless campaigning organisation.

If they had opted for the latter, I don't think they would ever have been taken seriously again.  I don't buy the 'thirst for power' argument put forward by some.  Clegg and Cable just don't seem that way inclined to me.  But they did clearly want to do something other than shout from the sidelines...which means they had to choose who to get in to bed with.  And I can completely understand why the Labour option was not attractive to them.  Had they done so, they would have been savaged by the Tories, accused of propping up a discredited 4th term Labour party who were offering very little in the way of fresh ideas.  And we'd still have had Brown at the helm.

So coalition with the Tories it had to be.  Yes...they've been shafted there too.  But to my mind, they have at least now demonstrate that are prepared to get their hands dirty and move on from being a simple party of protest.  It does not look good for them in the short term, but people will move on after a while.  OK - they broke an election pledge.  I don't think that's a first in politics.

[Peter Venkman]

These protestors are still scum in my eyes. I'm not a big fan of the royal family, but attacking them is just wrong.

At the end of the day, further education is an option. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't go. You don't have to pay anything until you earn over £21k pa. If you have a year out, or start a family then you don't have to pay anything. Just fucking grow up. The country is struggling financially, and things need to be done. It's affecting us all.

Totally agree with all those points.

[pauld]

It's affecting us all.

Not quite all of us, though, is it? Not the bankers who caused the crash who'll be trousering £7bn in bonuses this Christmas. Not the wealthy tax-dodgers like Philip Green (adviser to the government) or Lord Ashcroft or Viscount Rothermere. And not the Camerons, Cleggs, or Osbournes who are all nicely cushioned from the recession by their inherited millions. Some of us are more "all in this together" than others

[Sippo]

Paul, all as in us commoners. The hard workers of this country. The 'normal' folk.

[Mexicano Rojo]

No one should be made to feel excluded from education by prohibitively high costs.

If only the Government had considered alternative ways to fund education, like a more progressive taxation system.

For example, a business education tax levied on the top 4% of UK companies, as proposed by the University and Colleges Union, would require business to pay its fair share for the substantial benefits it receives from higher education.

Raising corporation tax to the G7 average would generate enough annually to abolish tuition fees, and increase UK investment in higher education to the average for other comparable countries, while leaving 96% of companies in the UK unaffected by the change, and still leaving the UK's main corporation tax below that of France, Japan and the US.

Unfortunately, such alternatives remain unexplored.

[Simon Pieman]

The 'you don't pay anything until you earn 21k' argument is weak in my opinion.

[Sippo]

But didn't it used to be £14k?

[pauld]

Paul, all as in us commoners. The hard workers of this country. The 'normal' folk.

Quite. But the "We're all in this together" quote is from Eton-educated, trust-fund-paid-for-his-every-need-when-he-was-at-uni-for-free-and-getting-a-grant, inherited-millions-himself-and-so-did-his-wife, smug-bastard Cameron. No you're fucking not. We are.

[pauld]

Raising corporation tax to the G7 average would generate enough annually to abolish tuition fees, and increase UK investment in higher education to the average for other comparable countries, while leaving 96% of companies in the UK unaffected by the change, and still leaving the UK's main corporation tax below that of France, Japan and the US.

Actually fucking collecting the tax might help as well. I'm looking at you Vodafone, Arcadia Group, Marks and Sparks etc etc