Crispy

[herthab]

Well he does have a cracking beard.

Good point.

[leefer]

You could go forever...........innocent Germans during WW2 probably saw Winston Churchill as a beast after he gave the go ahead for mass bombing in Hamburg etc.
Fact is Mandelas goal was to rid Africa of Apartheid which is to do with the colour of a humans skin....fact is the whites in Africa were the agressors killing many blacks at the drop of a hat and Mandela was trying to get equal rights for them...nothing more.
The same cannot be said of Adams etc.
He served his time in prison without complaint.....i applaud Nelson Mandela terrorist or not.

[herthab]

You could go forever...........innocent Germans during WW2 probably saw Winston Churchill as a beast after he gave the go ahead for mass bombing in Hamburg etc.
Fact is Mandelas goal was to rid Africa of Apartheid which is to do with the colour of a humans skin....fact is the whites in Africa were the agressors killing many blacks at the drop of a hat and Mandela was trying to get equal rights for them...nothing more.
The same cannot be said of Adams etc.
He served his time in prison without complaint.....i applaud Nelson Mandela terrorist or not.

That's a bit simplistic Leefer. Adams would argue that he too was a freedom fighter, trying to rid his country of what he viewed as a foreign oppresser.

WW2 was completely different, for one thing it was nation against nation and for another the blanket bombing of German cities happened after The Blitz, which cost the lives of thousandsof British civilians.

Whichever way you dress it up, what Mandela was involved in prior to his imprisonment (and during, at least at the beginning) was terrorism. I can applaud what he did when he was released, but not before.

Whatever the cause, terrorism is wrong.

[Langers]

Whatever the cause, terrorism is wrong.

Agree. Thats the end of any argument.

[Arriba]

Agree. Thats the end of any argument.

not if someone thinks terrorism is right it isn't.

[Langers]

not if someone thinks terrorism is right it isn't.

If they think that then they're levels of intelliegance must be questioned.

[leefer]

You could argue till the cows come home.......so were were the freedom fighters in all countrys who went around blowing up trains etc during occupation of there countrys deserve to be called terrorists?
Mandela was doing exactly the same in his eyes.
As for the IRA and the protestant groups you cannot compare.........they killed and maimed there own people and children.....i mean i know the irish are classed as thick but blowing up your own innocent race about sums up there case.

But yes Herthab i agree........all terrorism is wrong and i wont attempt to argue that fact.

[dphunt88]

While I do not wish to comment on crispy's actions or on individual examples of terrorism, I would like to say that I once had a very interesting lecture on the 'geographies of terrorism' down in Plymouth.

The lecturer, a chap called Richard Gibb, argued that the assumption that all terrorism is wrong... is wrong! If you follow!

Sometimes (and I've never been in this position) terrorism is the only creditable action left for groups to take against an oppressor.

The USA/UK etc are fighting wars over territory in Iraq and Afghanistan when the real issue is a clash of idealogies. Not for me to say but until this problem is addressed, they are wars that may never be won! To the detriment of our soldiers and the folk of the Iraq/Afghanistan.

[Simon Pieman]

Tell you who was a cunt. Princess Di

[tans]

Tell you who was a cunt. Princess Di

[Crispy]

Here you go, you want my opinion here it is ;

Mandela wanted equal rights for blacks and whites in south africa so went around killing white farmers and his list of crimes is a long one. Everybody thinks hes a hero for what he did without knowing he was a terroist.

Pretty much thats it. If you want to know more a google search will help, but not everything you read will be the truth obviously.

The 'Islamic symbols' in my name, which are somehow ironic stand for Kafir - A non beliver in islam.

For future reference, if you feel the need to question whats on my facebook, ask me on facebook please.

[Nemo]

"Without knowing what he did"

Yes, because it's not like his own autobiography documents large portions of the activities of Umkhonto We Sizwe. Most of it is along the lines of "I am not an angel, there are people who were but many of them died without the world knowing who they were and without their actions having a material effect"

Unfortunately, it has long words in, so I'd stick to your current information sources.

[Crispy]

"Without knowing what he did"

Yes, because it's not like his own autobiography documents large portions of the activities of Umkhonto We Sizwe. Most of it is along the lines of "I am not an angel, there are people who were but many of them died without the world knowing who they were and without their actions having a material effect"

Unfortunately, it has long words in, so I'd stick to your current information sources.

So because he admits to it in his book and adresses the fact he was a terrorist makes it better?

Anyway, im done with this thread, it was on facebook it will stay on facebook 

[BANGKOK RED]

Crispy.

Please don't patronise us by telling us about the terrorist shit he did. Do you not think we know that?

I've questioned other stuff on your facebook page before as have other people but there was no response so don't go down that route.

What I am really getting at is: I have given you the benefit of the doubt until now with your silly little EDL thing whereas others have been very quick and harsh in their judgement. then I see that.

Still undecided.

[Crispy]

Dont mean to sound like a twat but if you seriously don't like what i put on my facebook delete me. It's my opinion..