Dagenham & Redbridge V Swindon Town Official Match Day Thread

[Panda Paws]

We Support an average League 1 side that over achieved last year. 

As per my post above, we didn't over achieve last year, and our budget, crowds and general operations are now above average for this level.

I don't really think anyone is throwing their toys out of the pram or pressing the panic button. It's so early and we have more than an opportunity to try match last year. The discussion came out of the point that we need to be in and around the play-offs for the board and the (majority of) fans to be satisfied.

[Reg Smeeton]

That's so simplistic!

Off the field we've made massive progress. Our wage budget and transfer budget is towards the top end of this league (maybe 5th - 8th), our crowds are at a similar level. The board have been hell-bent on building this club on and off the pitch to put us in a position to challenge in this league, and we now have to deliver.

We're no longer a run-of-the-mill league one club, capable of a good season every 8 years or whatever. Look at the sponsors, look at the gates increasing in a time of real financial hardship, the ambitious but sensible ground plans, the general improvement of of the "CG experience". This board have changed all of that, and now we need to make sure we step up on the pitch.

Last year was not an over-acheivement.  AF and DW have both said many times that the expectation last year was playoffs and the 3rd round of the cup, and it was part of the building process. The expectation - inhouse at least - will be the same one would imagine, or possible even higher with the outlay in the summer.

Think you mistake stabilising for progress, the current set up has indeed returned us to a kind of position where most STFC would reckon is our natural terrain, namely about 12th to 5th in Div 3...it's pushing beyond that which will require a bit more than is currently happening.

Take the last time we left Div 3 upwardly....it was based around strikers who cost collectively 750K and defenders who'd cost 600K or so.

Given the current level of investment I'd say finishing lower than 12th would be disappointing. 

[Berniman]

Last years target was play offs and 3rd round of the cup, so let's assume the targets are higher.  SO we finish 7th and get knocked out of the cup in the 2nd round you would sack Wilson?

Pick a replacement Manager that would realistically come to us from the managers that are out there.  If you sack your manager you either look around at what is available or you go and get one, so who do we go and get that would come to Swindon Town with the money we are prepared to spend and the wages we are prepared to pay?  You know that O'Neil would not come to us so be realistic.

[Arriba]

personally i wouldn't sack wilson unless we drop into the relegation zone this season.
loosing greer,paynter and ward wasn't his fault.the formation and signings are though.
i'd give him till this time next year.if we are not at the right end of the table then i'd sack him.
we are not progressing from last year currently.infact we have gone backwards

[Berniman]

As per my post above, we didn't over achieve last year, and our budget, crowds and general operations are now above average for this level.

I don't really think anyone is throwing their toys out of the pram or pressing the panic button. It's so early and we have more than an opportunity to try match last year. The discussion came out of the point that we need to be in and around the play-offs for the board and the (majority of) fans to be satisfied.

We did over achieve by the recent standards of our club, it was a huge jump when you look at the achievents of the previous few years.

[Berniman]

personally i wouldn't sack wilson unless we drop into the relegation zone this season.
lossing greer,paynter and ward wasn't his fault.the formation and signings are though.
i'd give him till this time next year.if we are not at the right end of the table then i'd sack him.
we are not progressing from last year currently.infact we have gone backwards

Agree with this

[DiV]

If we finished 7th - ie not far off our target then I'd give him a stay of exicutuion. Let him know that last season wasnt good enough and he has the summer to put together a better team. Then give him 10 to 15 games to prove his worth the following season.

Anything in the bottom half of the table this season and I'd get rid.

Same answer as before re: managers. I wouldnt get rid of Wilson any earlier than the end of the season. No one knows who will be available at that time.

[Panda Paws]

Think you mistake stabilising for progress, the current set up has indeed returned us to a kind of position where most STFC would reckon is our natural terrain, namely about 12th to 5th in Div 3...it's pushing beyond that which will require a bit more than is currently happening.

Take the last time we left Div 3 upwardly....it was based around strikers who cost collectively 750K and defenders who'd cost 600K or so.

Given the current level of investment I'd say finishing lower than 12th would be disappointing. 

But stabilising from where we were to now is massive progress surely? Regarding the level of investment, we spent more money than most in the summer and we pay well for this level (top eight). The last time we left this division the football league was a different landscape.

And Berniman, I know it's a bit of a tenous example but isn't that like saying if Man City get in the top four it's an over-achievement? The target was to challenge for the top 6, the board felt they had backed wilson to enable us to challenge and we did challenge. That to me is not an over-achievement.

Let's not split hairs though, anything other than a sustained play-off challenge - even an unseccesful one - is a step backwards and a failure, and I'm sure everyone at the club would agree. Obviously if we finish 7th or 8th or 9th or whatever, a just miss the play-offs then so be it, things like that happen and you go again the next year, but midtable obscurity would be failure.

[Benzel]

personally i wouldn't sack wilson unless we drop into the relegation zone this season.
loosing greer,paynter and ward wasn't his fault.the formation and signings are though.
i'd give him till this time next year.if we are not at the right end of the table then i'd sack him.
we are not progressing from last year currently.infact we have gone backwards

Agree with this.
____________________

First time I've been really angry thanks to football in a while. Angry because I was late so missed the goal, angry at the performance and angry at the dicks berating the players by the tunnel.

Shit day. Bring on Rovers.

[Berniman]

But you said you would sack him if he didn't meet the targets set for him.  The benchmark I used was last years targets which have been raised this year.  This is what I mean by over reaction.

Your last post I agree with except the bottom half of the table thing, I would go with Arribas plan!

OK, Wilson walks out tomorrow, who would you go and get now that would realistically sign and do a better job at this level than Wilson has done?

[glos_robin]

Anything in the bottom half of the table this season and I'd get rid.

Unfortunately I'd have to agree and by and large that has been the story of Wilsons managerial career he tends to have a good season then a steady decline. It's disappointing though as he does try to play football the right way and hopefully he can turn us around but there does seem a bit of a trend with him.

[Arriba]

wilson did a great job to get us to the play offs.for that alone he deserves a bit of slack and some patience.
fittons interference in team matters will buy wilson time also.

[DiV]

If we were looking for a new manager tomorrow, my first choice would be Paul Tisdale.

[Berniman]

But stabilising from where we were to now is massive progress surely? Regarding the level of investment, we spent more money than most in the summer and we pay well for this level (top eight). The last time we left this division the football league was a different landscape.

And Berniman, I know it's a bit of a tenous example but isn't that like saying if Man City get in the top four it's an over-achievement? The target was to challenge for the top 6, the board felt they had backed wilson to enable us to challenge and we did challenge. That to me is not an over-achievement.

Let's not split hairs though, anything other than a sustained play-off challenge - even an unseccesful one - is a step backwards and a failure, and I'm sure everyone at the club would agree. Obviously if we finish 7th or 8th or 9th or whatever, a just miss the play-offs then so be it, things like that happen and you go again the next year, but midtable obscurity would be failure.

I agree to a certain extent Panda, but what I am saying is, if we don't improve or get near what we did last year what do we do?  Sack the Manager, Sack the board?  I agree that there are things that need improving and that we need to push on, but these things take time and it is never a straight forward consistent climb to what you want to achieve.  You will experience set backs, you will experience peaks and troughs, even Man Utd and Man City do that.

Ideally we want to progress on last year but it is not guaranteed, and it might take another year to get to where we want to be.  Sometimes though this is something that you have to put up with to push on the following year, and drastic measures this year won't necessarily help things.

[Panda Paws]

OK, Wilson walks out tomorrow, who would you go and get now that would realistically sign and do a better job at this level than Wilson has done?

Great question.

I'd like to think we could tempt Paul Tidsdale, but it'd be a gamble and Wilson is a top manager at this level no doubt.

I personally think we'll push for the top six and Wilson will be fine here though, and I'd never dream of calling the board into question, they've been incredible for us. I expect peaks and troughs etc, which is why if we finished 9th or something, after challenging, there would be no question over Wilson or anything else.

It's interesting to read opinions regarding ambition and expectation.