The PM Debates

[Spy]

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[Summerof69]

What do you think our mate Dave might have been saying when he climbed into his car the other day after that bloke hijacked him and harangued him about schooling for his disabled kid?

Would he have been happy to have every word he said broadcast to the nation?

Probably not, but I don't think Cameron would've called him a bigot.

Anyway, Cameron used to have a disabled kid himself until he died last year so I would've thought he would've been sympathetic.

[Talk Talk]

This.

as you can tell I'm going to spoil my ballot paper

They are all cunts, I can't believe how anybody spends neuron time thinking about 'which option of three completely similar parties I have been presented with (and no other parties/individuals stand a fucking chance) will I vote for?"

There's no option on the ballot paper for "I don't want any government" unfortunately.

[Lumps]

Probably not, but I don't think Cameron would've called him a bigot.

Well no, because the discussion they had was about the mainstreaming of disabled children in schools, not moaning about all the immigrants.

I'm pretty sure that the first part of the conversation, the "shit I could do without that, who put me with that bloke?" bit would have sounded very similar to GB's comments.

We all fucking do it.

Paxman was the funniest on Newsnight last night, how the fuck no-one on the panel reminded him of his unawares comments about Dave whilst still on mike after their interview last week I don't know.

[Lumps]

There's no option on the ballot paper for "I don't want any government" unfortunately.

That's because the rest of us inhabit this thing called "reality" (you may have heard of it) where the process of moving from a society which requires a state apparatus to one which does not is a little bit more complicated than it is in the dreamworld you live in

[Talk Talk]

That's because the rest of us inhabit this thing called "reality" (you may have heard of it) where the process of moving from a society which requires a state apparatus to one which does not is a little bit more complicated than it is in the dreamworld you live in

Fuck off Lumpy Cunty, I know what reality is, it is fucked.. What I am thinking of is a different society which could be reality, as it has not been tried before. I'm sick of wankers like you living in the here and now with 50+% taxation, corrupt and stupid national and international governments, interference in every aspect of our lives, never ending state spending increases which will ultimately bring the whole system crashing down and so on.

Yes, there is a process to move from one to the other and that is what I am interested in. It isn't complicated, it only requires an increasing percentage of any population to consider an alternative that is based on common sense and philosophy rooted in average human behaviour.

[Lumps]

Fuck off Lumpy Cunty, I know what reality is, it is fucked.. What I am thinking of is a different society which could be reality, as it has not been tried before. I'm sick of wankers like you living in the here and now with 50+% taxation, corrupt and stupid national and international governments, interference in every aspect of our lives, never ending state spending increases which will ultimately bring the whole system crashing down and so on.

Yes, there is a process to move from one to the other and that is what I am interested in. It isn't complicated, it only requires an increasing percentage of any population to consider an alternative that is based on common sense and philosophy rooted in average human behaviour.

You really don't grasp the concept of state power do you?

All it takes is enough people to think like you and all the structures that are in place to protect existing property relations will just disappear will they?

At least you share one thing with proper anarchists then.

[leefer]

http://store.perspicuity.com/sections/Products/Lemming.sized.jpg

Most Labour voters....because there parents did...they do.
For some reason we are shite scared of change in this country.

[Barry Scott]

You really don't grasp the concept of state power do you?

All it takes is enough people to think like you and all the structures that are in place to protect existing property relations will just disappear will they?

Which without going all TalkTalk, would be a good thing in my opinion. In fact, I'll go the whole hog. What TT says makes more sense to me that alot of the other shit people spout dressed up as politics and "for the greater good". It's always stank of nothing but propaganda and control tactics to me.

And with regard to grasping the concept of state power, we give them that power don't we? In our state? They're supposed to act with our interests at heart and that hasn't been the case in my lifetime - I don't think.

In my defence politics is something i chose not to understand. It's always seemed to me that we're merely pawns in a stupid egotistical game played by those in power. All i know is i'm a liberalist with a belief in freedom and a overwhelming quantity of apathy thrown in for good measure. I also know i don't believe in those wonderful tax justifying ideals of "Rich and Evil" and "Poor and Honest".

[Lumps]

That's kind of not what I was getting at.

My point is not that I wouldn't like to see radical change to the way society is ordered, but that as a good Leninist I understand that the state is:

Firstly - Essentially there to protect the status quo - that being the existing set opf property relations, keeping small minority that own virtually fucking everything owning virtually fucking everything; and

Ultimately - "based on armed bodies of men". Dress it up all you like with the welfare state, and the nice concessions that the ruling class grant us in order to keep us in line, when it comes down to it the state rests on having blokes with guns to stop the people taking charge should they chose to.

That last one might seem a bit over the top, but you don't have to read to much about the general strike, or even think back much further than the miners or printers strikes, to state power will move physically to inforce the interests of the ruling class over those of the rest of us.

Anarchists, of which TT is a really strange variety, tend to choose to ignore this. Those that acknowledge that the existing state needs to be broken up seem to think that you can then not replace it with anything and everything will be fine. As if the ruling class will just realise the error of their ways and slope off to become geography teachers or something.

I know that questions of how you would structure a state that was truely democratic and participative are difficult, but that's no reason to pretend that one isn't needed.

[herthab]

Surely human nature dictates that a truly democratic state is as unrealistic as a truly socialist state?

[Colin Todd]

I'm all for a scaled down government with reduced interference. Its one of my biggest hates of labour.

However the idea that you can completly remove any form of government and it wont lead to total civil disorder is mental.  People riot over football for fucks sake.

[pauld]

I know that questions of how you would structure a state that was truely democratic and participative are difficult, but that's no reason to pretend that one isn't needed.

Ooooh, what about the eventual "whithering away of the state" under the genuinely socialist regime which is supposed to follow the dictatorship of the proleteriat, you naughty Marxist, you? Go to the back of dialectical materialism class and write out Das Kapital 100 times!

[Samdy Gray]

Ooooh, what about the eventual "whithering away of the state" under the genuinely socialist regime which is supposed to follow the dictatorship of the proleteriat, you naughty Marxist, you? Go to the back of dialectical materialism class and write out Das Kapital 100 times!

This is exactly why I do not like and/or understand politics. That whole post is just complete jibberish to me.

[Barry Scott]

This is exactly why I do not like and/or understand politics. That whole post is just complete jibberish to me.