The tennis thread got me thinking...

[No Longer Posh Red]

He didn't even have the best car the season he won the championship, which Schumacher always did.

Do you seriously believe that the Benetton that he won the championship in was the best car, if you do you are deluded.

And don't forget that when he went to Ferrari they were a joke, and it was him that developed the car into the best.

There is no doubt that at the end of his time in F1 that Schumacher was the dominant force, and for all his achievements in motor sport Hamilton hasn't (yet) been that dominant.

[Ben Wah Balls]

As much as I like Button, I think he's almost the only one who would. Although he's had some awful cars, he's not really outshone his team-mates every season. It will be interesting to see how he does this season but I can't see him finishing ahead of Hamilton. It will be a great achievement if he does though.

[pauld]

If darts and snooker are sports, so's shove ha'penny and Aunt Sally. We should lobby for Aunt Sally to be included in the 2012 Olympics, to be competed between teams of bearded men with bells strapped to their knees

[Ben Wah Balls]

Do you seriously believe that the Benetton that he won the championship in was the best car, if you do you are deluded.

And don't forget that when he went to Ferrari they were a joke, and it was him that developed the car into the best.

There is no doubt that at the end of his time in F1 that Schumacher was the dominant force, and for all his achievements in motor sport Hamilton hasn't (yet) been that dominant.

In 1994 he should have been disqualified anyway, so I wouldn't even consider that a real win. 1995 is about the only season you could argue he didn't have the best car but the Benetton was actually very good that year and designed to suit Schumacher's driving style, with the best engine and his car was very reliable so even then there wasn't much in it.

Do you seriously think it was Schumacher who developed Ferrari into the best team and nothing to do with their billion pound budget which dwarfed all the other teams? That is laughable.

Of course there was doubt and Hamilton's certainly been far more dominant in his first three seasons than Schumacher was in his first three, give him some time and you'll see just how good he is.

[Batch]

hehe BWB really really hates Schumacher

[DMR]

Well... BWB, I think the debate shows Hamilton is not universally considered the pinnacle of his sport, regardless of what you and doubtless plenty of others say... so as the starter of the thread I rule him out

AP McCoy anyone?

[yeo]

Nope

you cant have a Jockey because its partly(mostly) the Horse.McCoy gets better rides and more rides than other Jockeys.For the same reason you shouldnt include any Car Drivers or Players from team games.

[DMR]

Yeah but he's had to earn getting the good rides, and he certainly doesn't ride for the 2 biggest NH yards either. Of course the horse matters but he's won on some right dogs... he's certainly the man you'd want on a shitty afternoon at Plumpton over Ruby who's always going to be your Saturday man.

And in that case... Kauto Star

[strooood]

In a thread about undisputed number ones I cannot believe 12 posts have been made without mentioning Muhammed Ali

Probably because he wasn't even the greatest heavyweight of all time, let alone the greatest boxer.

[strooood]

Oh, and Michael Jordan.

[yeo]

Id say yes to Kauto Star,hes a Horse version of Usain Bolt.

[No Longer Posh Red]

In 1994 he should have been disqualified anyway, so I wouldn't even consider that a real win. 1995 is about the only season you could argue he didn't have the best car but the Benetton was actually very good that year and designed to suit Schumacher's driving style, with the best engine and his car was very reliable so even then there wasn't much in it.

Do you seriously think it was Schumacher who developed Ferrari into the best team and nothing to do with their billion pound budget which dwarfed all the other teams? That is laughable.

Of course there was doubt and Hamilton's certainly been far more dominant in his first three seasons than Schumacher was in his first three, give him some time and you'll see just how good he is.

Ferrari had a massive budget before Schumacher, but still had a crap car.

One of the things they lacked was a driver who could feedback the relevant information to the technicians so that they could improve it, and this was one of the things that he was very good at.

This is one reason why I don't think Button is a great, he's quick in a good car, but just useless at developing it. It's no coincidence that as the Brawn developed last year it became better for Barrichello.

As for Lewis, first half of last season apart he has been in one of the two best teams in F1, and in one season he threw away the Championship, and in the second he only just held on by a point, not exactly dominant was it?

As for comaprisons to other drivers first three seasons, how often does a driver get into one of the big teams in their first season in F1, and even if they do they are usually forced to play second fiddle to the teams number 1 driver.

I think this is going to be an interesting year for Lewis, there's no doubting his talent but the new regualtions regarding refueling don't really suit an aggresive driving style. it's more back to the days of Prost when saving your tyres early in the race gave you a chance to pick people off at the end of the race when their's were knackered.

[nevillew]

Probably because he wasn't even the greatest heavyweight of all time, let alone the greatest boxer.

So who was?, in your opinion, which in this case will be wrong.

[michael]

I'd say Joe Louis.

But it is a highly debatable subject, and the recent crop of "super heavyweights" (including a prime Lewis) would give him, and indeed Ali, fits.

[Ben Wah Balls]

Ferrari had a massive budget before Schumacher, but still had a crap car.

One of the things they lacked was a driver who could feedback the relevant information to the technicians so that they could improve it, and this was one of the things that he was very good at.

This is one reason why I don't think Button is a great, he's quick in a good car, but just useless at developing it. It's no coincidence that as the Brawn developed last year it became better for Barrichello.

As for Lewis, first half of last season apart he has been in one of the two best teams in F1, and in one season he threw away the Championship, and in the second he only just held on by a point, not exactly dominant was it?

As for comaprisons to other drivers first three seasons, how often does a driver get into one of the big teams in their first season in F1, and even if they do they are usually forced to play second fiddle to the teams number 1 driver.

I think this is going to be an interesting year for Lewis, there's no doubting his talent but the new regualtions regarding refueling don't really suit an aggresive driving style. it's more back to the days of Prost when saving your tyres early in the race gave you a chance to pick people off at the end of the race when their's were knackered.

Ferrari started spending a huge amount of money in 1996 when they signed Schumacher for £24m a year and then Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne and also spent a huge amount on their wind tunnel and other staff. That is the reason why they became more competitive and it had fuck all to do with Schumacher. It's absurd to give him the credit for that. He didn't design the car and he didn't pay for it.

Hamilton certainly was dominant, to finish above a team-mate who is the reigning champion in your first season is such a huge achievement, it can't be underestimated. The reason he started with a big team is because his pre F1 record was unmatched by anyone, he earnt that privilege and showed he deserved it by having the best debut season in F1 history. Nobody has come close to matching his achievements since he started in formula one. Some people have said he's not the undisputed number one but they haven't given any realistic alternatives.