2010/11 Season Tickets

[jonny72]

Well, yes, everyone knows that, including the board. The football has been getting better - sorry, I know it's not good enough for you - and we're having a serious tilt at promotion far earlier than I expected.They haven't said that.

I never said the football wasn't getting better or wasn't good enough. My main point is that the club has been going forward (the football getting better, attendances increasing, all the off the pitch improvements) and the board have always made out they accept its a long term project but now they seem to be wanting to speed things up - with there being consequences if they don't.

They've simply set out the realities of sustaining Championship football and a stadium suitable for it. You've read an awful lot in between the lines and kicked off about it unnecessarily. I'd be contemplating pulling my head in if I were you, but as you're not, I look forward to more unwarranted "shit"

There was no reference to Championship level football, so I took it that the comments were aimed at League One level football. If I got that wrong and they are only talking about substantial increasing in attendances if we get promoted then my bad, my apologies and all that shit. The statement was a bit unclear about this.

[jonny72]

However, I would have thought that they would have started going up already. The Gillingham game was a really poor attendance and kind of made me think it isnt going to happen.

Of course our average from now untill the end of the season will go up purely because Leeds and Rovers will sell out the away end. I expect Norwich and maybe Charlton will bring enough for the bank to be open. Its only Saints that have used it thus far.

I did actually check my facts before posting the 8K plus average comment. After the Leeds game our average league attendances at home will be higher than after the same number of games last season. Factor in the 3 big games we've still got left and the average will end up higher than last season and over 8K.

[pauld]

There was no reference to Championship level football, so I took it that the comments were aimed at League One level football. If I got that wrong and they are only talking about substantial increasing in attendances if we get promoted then my bad, my apologies and all that shit. The statement was a bit unclear about this.

Fair enough, you're right it is ambiguous. I think most of us have assumed they were talking about sustaining second tier football because that's always been their stated aim and because of the repeated quoting of figures at AGMs etc that we need gates of 9-10,000 to sustain a second-tier side. Whereas you're assuming they mean that third tier is unsustainable on 6500. So we're all reading something into it, and yeah, you could read it the way you did. Fair do's. (That's the sound of me winding my neck in, btw )

I think the former interpretation is more reasonable as it chimes more closely with the overall plan and previous statements - ie what they're saying is "OK guys we've got this far by pumping money in and we'll pump more in but we need to know your ambition matches ours. And that we won't pump in a load of cash to get to a level we can't compete at because the support isn't there". Which is, IMO, pretty much fair enough and a wholly realistic thing to say -what level of football do we as a Town want? And to some extent, the "gauntlet-throwing" nature of the way it's been put in itself is geared towards generating a degree of "call to action" to sustain the undoubted momentum we have right now. As is the timing of the offer - it's perfectly timed to draw people in and generate excitement about next season while we do have some momentum off the back of the Fulham game, league position etc. Rather than, say, wait until end of the season when we may just miss out on the play-offs and everyone ends up feeling a bit deflated when in fact we've massively overachieved. Ride the wave while it's there and all that.

[Arriba]

And the (some) fans need to realise that the board aren't a charity. £199 is a cracking deal. End of.

what the fuck are you on about?
it is a good deal,no disputing that.but a fair chunk of fans wont commit to a season ticket.
hence why i said what i did.

posh.your points i agree with, but plenty wont do the maths and commit.that is there choice and many like it that way.they will pay and turn up as they wish.

[yeo]

Im not really that sure why selling loads of season tickets is that important to football clubs? Surely they'll get more money if more people pay more money on the day and they will have a better cash flow?

[Spencer_White]

Im not really that sure why selling loads of season tickets is that important to football clubs? Surely they'll get more money if more people pay more money on the day and they will have a better cash flow?

I agree. Modern boards do seem a bit obsessed with it. But I think its working. I think Its had a big knock on effect for numbers of away fans travelling. This season has been the worst season I can remmember for away support, and last season was pretty bad as well.

[penhill red]

Is there a full price list out yet? Do under 10's still get a free Season Ticket? I think this was a brilliant incentive for this season but not sure how many people were aware of it, i take my boy every week and now frends of his who got a bit jealous at school roped theird dads in to taking them. I also think that the newly built areas of Swindon could possible unearth a few more fans, no doubt most of them do not come from Swindon but may be interested in watching live football. If they work out of Swindon they may not see much of the local media, maybe leafleting these areas could grab the attention of these people?

[ahounsell]

Im not really that sure why selling loads of season tickets is that important to football clubs? Surely they'll get more money if more people pay more money on the day and they will have a better cash flow?

The attraction is the certainty the club have with a larger body of season ticket holders.

They should also be trying to get more fans to pay on the day aswell though if only because you need to get people coming to the ground in some form before you can convert them to season ticket holders.

[wiggy]

I will be interested to see the prices for junior tickets - my oldest won't wualify for the under 10's go free next season, so even though my ticket will cost less I will have to find a bit extra.

I was telling some of the other dads at youth football about the £199 tickets for the Town End, and several who currently just come to occasional games were dead keen.

[Oaksey Moonraker]

Fair enough, you're right it is ambiguous. I think most of us have assumed they were talking about sustaining second tier football because that's always been their stated aim and because of the repeated quoting of figures at AGMs etc that we need gates of 9-10,000 to sustain a second-tier side. Whereas you're assuming they mean that third tier is unsustainable on 6500. So we're all reading something into it, and yeah, you could read it the way you did. Fair do's. (That's the sound of me winding my neck in, btw )

I think the former interpretation is more reasonable as it chimes more closely with the overall plan and previous statements - ie what they're saying is "OK guys we've got this far by pumping money in and we'll pump more in but we need to know your ambition matches ours. And that we won't pump in a load of cash to get to a level we can't compete at because the support isn't there". Which is, IMO, pretty much fair enough and a wholly realistic thing to say -what level of football do we as a Town want? And to some extent, the "gauntlet-throwing" nature of the way it's been put in itself is geared towards generating a degree of "call to action" to sustain the undoubted momentum we have right now. As is the timing of the offer - it's perfectly timed to draw people in and generate excitement about next season while we do have some momentum off the back of the Fulham game, league position etc. Rather than, say, wait until end of the season when we may just miss out on the play-offs and everyone ends up feeling a bit deflated when in fact we've massively overachieved. Ride the wave while it's there and all that.

I think what the board are saying is the investment they have made this year for League 1 promotion push is unsustainable as I showed with my number crunching earlier, the club lost £3m again last year and the board are having to cover that. Maybe the losses will reduce as the old debts clean up finishes but basically the gate money is only covered half the wage bill on 7500 average in 2008/9.

They have used the Coxy money to invest in the team to bring in Cuthbert, Douglas, Greer etc and it may require us to sell players if the price is right in the future to plug the gap as I'm not sure the board will keep writing cheques for £2-3m to cover this. They need to see that is worth it in terms of the response from the fans and if you looked at all the demographics of Swindon compared with Reading then that is the model you would follow. Reading is nearer to London and the draw of the train to watch Premier teams must be stronger.

In terms of getting people back then only success on the field will draw people in and we haven't had much in the last 10 years apart from 2003/4 and 2006/7. I looked at some of our historic gates and in 2003/4 we only got over 10k for 4 or 5 games that year. In 1995/6 the gates were regularly over 10K for the bigger games and the typical non big game about 8500, but this was 2 years after Prem so there were people who had been to games in the recent past.

What is maybe needed is a huge trigger to get people to come back so something like a good cup run, big club at home in FA Cup or if we got a Wembley play off final then we would probably see the 30,000 come out again. The Gills gate wasn't unexpected and if you look at gates for the early Jan games then they are always low and with the poor weather a few may have been put off or been snowed in for days so the Saturday was the 1st opportunity to get other things done.

I would also expect that with Charlton and Rovers coming up at and we approach the business end of the season, the casual supporters will come more regularly. A lot of clubs have tried the buy at this years prices or tried to sell early, look what our friends at Bristol City have done and the gates they are getting regularly (14K average). I do think we need the 25,000 capacity and may be do what Franchise have done, build the new stands but leave a tier with out seats until the time you need them.

Anyway, let's hope that Leeds on Tuesday is the trigger to get a few more back on a regular basis and that the atmosphere convinces the board that there is the potential we all know is there for this club to become a lot bigger.

[Ardiles]

Going back to my earlier point about the growth of Reading's support - & sorry to keep banging on about this, by the way, but it's the best example/template I can think of - can anyone remember how it happened for them?  I remember their gates rising fairly quickly from approx 5,000 to approx 15,000, but can anyone remember whether that happened before or after their promotions and the move away from Elm Park?

The reason I'm asking is I'm trying to put my finger on whether promotion and/or a ground redevelopment is a prerequisite for a steep increase in gates.  Is it realistic to expect this simply by dropping prices, or should the board reserve judgement until we're a Championship side (which, for the first time in a long time, I'm beginning at least to recognise as a possibility.)

(Edit: Yes, I know Elm Park did not hold 15,000!)

[jonny72]

Reading averaged 12.5k in 2000/1 when there were still in the 3rd tier. So I guess the new stadium was responsible for most of the increase. There are stats on average attendances for all clubs from 2000/1 onwards here:

http://www.emfootball.co.uk/attend.html

[Oaksey Moonraker]

Reading averaged 12.5k in 2000/1 when there were still in the 3rd tier. So I guess the new stadium was responsible for most of the increase. There are stats on average attendances for all clubs from 2000/1 onwards here:

http://www.emfootball.co.uk/attend.html

9676 when finishing bottom of 2nd tier and then 11262 in 3rd tier finishing 10th. Had averaged around 9500 in old 2nd tier in previous seasons. Did drop to 8985 in 1999/2000 and then 12647

[Talk Talk]

I will be buying my first season ticket for the TE next month.

This is an interesting debate. I have been to most home games for the last few seasons and have been happy to pay match day prices. So the club have made more profit out of me, but they haven't been getting the cash up front. So in effect they will be losing margin for 'my type' of supporter. Which cannot be good business.

Which leaves me to think that the season ticket deal must be aimed at the occasional fan...

[Spencer_White]

Reading averaged 12.5k in 2000/1 when there were still in the 3rd tier. So I guess the new stadium was responsible for most of the increase. There are stats on average attendances for all clubs from 2000/1 onwards here:

http://www.emfootball.co.uk/attend.html

Their attendances dropped for 3 seasons after they moved to the new ground. They were averaging about 11,000 at Elm Park and dropped to 9,000 in the new ground. After about 5 years of League 1 football Madjeski got bored and opened the chequebook for Pardew. The season they got promoted they needed a 19,000 average to break even and fell well short of that.

One of the great delusions of Diamandis and co was that if the Council gave them land, then the football club attendances would increase and make them money, because of what had happened at Reading. In fact, Madjeski bank rolled Reading. He is reducing his role and it is a very painful transition for them.

(although I have to admit they were impressive at Liverpool).