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Author Topic: 'Who's snuffed it now?'  (Read 1353603 times)
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« Reply #1020 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 18:34:07 »

The man...got rid of the maximum wage.

So it's his fault for the state of the game today.
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herthab
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« Reply #1021 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 18:44:58 »

So it's his fault for the state of the game today.
No. Footballers were paid derisory amounts, compared to the money made by clubs at the time. Sky in particular and tv in general have fucked the game.

I didn't like Hill very much, but he did more for the game than most in his lifetime.
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« Reply #1022 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 19:32:54 »

Lord Janner passes on.
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Ells

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« Reply #1023 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 20:38:04 »

Lord Janner passes on.

And the "trial of the facts" won't take place. Disgusting.
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If Don Rogers were alive today, he'd be turning in his grave
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« Reply #1024 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 20:49:58 »

I'd say 'unfortunate' rather than disgusting.  You cannot try a dead man.  He died an innocent man in the eyes of the law.  His death maybe supports the view that he was not fit to stand trial.  We'll never know whether he was guilty of the abuse that has been alleged.
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« Reply #1025 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 20:57:42 »

I'd say 'unfortunate' rather than disgusting.  You cannot try a dead man.  He died an innocent man in the eyes of the law.  His death maybe supports the view that he was not fit to stand trial.  We'll never know whether he was guilty of the abuse that has been alleged.

What, like Jimmy savile?
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Ells

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« Reply #1026 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 20:59:06 »

What, like Jimmy savile?


Exactly.
He may be innocent, he may be guilty. You can't just pretend the accusations aren't there because he's dead. Justice is about far more than inflicting imprisonment on a living man, especially from a victim's point of view.
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« Reply #1027 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 21:15:42 »

Exactly.
He may be innocent, he may be guilty. You can't just pretend the accusations aren't there because he's dead. Justice is about far more than inflicting imprisonment on a living man, especially from a victim's point of view.

I haven't done that.

The accusations are there in plain view.  No one doubts that they exist.  You say yourself that he may be innocent or guilty.  All I'm saying is that a judicial process needs to be followed in order to establish which.  And Janner was not in a fit state to participate in that process.  It was your use of 'disgusting' which I wasn't sure about, that's all.

The only alternative judicial process that might be followed now that he is dead is some form of enquiry, public or otherwise.

What, like Jimmy savile?

He's a good example, actually.  He was never tried, and never found guilty.  That's why the enquiry is necessary.
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Ells

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« Reply #1028 on: Saturday, December 19, 2015, 21:37:58 »

Ah, I see what you mean now, apologies Ardiles. Disgusting does imply there was some sort of decision process I disagree with - which I don't. You can't blame the judicial system for him dying. I just wish the trial of the facts had been able to go ahead. "Disappointing" just didn't seem strong enough a word, but in hindsight would probably have conveyed what I meant more accurately.

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If Don Rogers were alive today, he'd be turning in his grave
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« Reply #1029 on: Tuesday, December 22, 2015, 10:41:14 »

Ah, I see what you mean now, apologies Ardiles. Disgusting does imply there was some sort of decision process I disagree with - which I don't. You can't blame the judicial system for him dying. I just wish the trial of the facts had been able to go ahead. "Disappointing" just didn't seem strong enough a word, but in hindsight would probably have conveyed what I meant more accurately.


yes. Yes you should
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« Reply #1030 on: Tuesday, December 22, 2015, 11:59:07 »

I was quite surprised, given this country's lust for blood when it comes to pedophiles, that most people weren't satisfied that Lord Janner suffering with dementia was some sort of karmic justice. Either way, as has been stated he dies an innocent man with his family sticking by him. I don't really know the ins and outs but tend to believe there's no smoke without fire. Bit of a tricky subject really.
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« Reply #1031 on: Tuesday, December 22, 2015, 13:17:29 »

I was quite surprised, given this country's lust for blood when it comes to pedophiles, that most people weren't satisfied that Lord Janner suffering with dementia was some sort of karmic justice. Either way, as has been stated he dies an innocent man with his family sticking by him. I don't really know the ins and outs but tend to believe there's no smoke without fire. Bit of a tricky subject really.

Indeed, its a murky old case...

One area that has caught my eye and building on your comment about this country's lust for blood when it comes to pedophiles is the clamour on Facebook for his trial to go ahead despite his Dementia which means he would have been unable to contribute or defend himself, which ironically seems to be being led by many of the same people who were most vociferous against the use of secret evidence in trials - the right to an even trial doesn't seem to apply in this case?

I have no idea of the rights and wrongs in this case and it is rightly a tricky mess where whatever happens you are not going to get an outcome that keeps everyone happy but there does need to be consistency in the legal process.

Possibly gets Tom Watson out of a slightly embarrassing situation following his clamour for the prosecution of Leon Britton  whilst refusing to sign letters calling for the trial of Janner...
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Ells

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« Reply #1032 on: Tuesday, December 22, 2015, 23:16:24 »

yes. Yes you should

I should what?
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If Don Rogers were alive today, he'd be turning in his grave
Talk Talk

« Reply #1033 on: Tuesday, December 22, 2015, 23:21:13 »

I should what?

Use simpler English Ells. Some of the users of this forum can't manage joined up writing even  Wink
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« Reply #1034 on: Wednesday, December 23, 2015, 17:07:52 »

Don Howe has died. Arguably the best football coach of his era.
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