pauld
Aaron Aardvark
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Absolute Calamity!
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« Reply #33210 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 13:57:40 » |
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There are 14 ex players who've re-signed, not arbitary. You could look into their cases as well.
Completely different players at different points in their careers and the club's history who left different teams and rejoined different teams to the one we are now. The list of things that are different vastly outweighs the one small point of similarity and renders any comparison worthless, other than as an interesting anecdote. Which is fine, it is, as I've acknowledged, an interesting anecdotal diversion. But to try to dress it up as "scientific empricism", "data" and "evidence" is nonsense on stilts. FACT!
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Richie Wellen-Dowd
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« Reply #33211 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 13:59:06 » |
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There's often misplaced romance about re-signing former players on the basis of their previous capabilities. By definition, they were on the up and went on to greater things, and when they re-sign are typically on their way back down, so usually tarnish some of their former glory. I wouldn't really call it science: it's just a career curve.
Signing any player past their peak is only a question of how much they've lost: Peacock, Culverhouse and Hoddle still had it; Diagouraga, Nalis, Fenwick, Ince and so many others, not so much.
Spot on. What is silly is on an STFC forum not discussing the relative merits of re-signing ex players, and making a case for or against on what we know.
I think most would/have discussed it on the basis of, decent player who should be able to do a job at this level, but do we really need him?
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Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia
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Posts: 34913
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« Reply #33212 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 13:59:23 » |
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There's often misplaced romance about re-signing former players on the basis of their previous capabilities. By definition, they were on the up and went on to greater things, and when they re-sign are typically on their way back down, so usually tarnish some of their former glory. I wouldn't really call it science: it's just a career curve.
Signing any player past their peak is only a question of how much they've lost: Peacock, Culverhouse and Hoddle still had it; Diagouraga, Nalis, Fenwick, Ince and so many others, not so much.
It's an observation, and as you rightly have done, offers itself to an interpretation.... in terms of an STFC football forum it's "science"
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GosportNob
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« Reply #33213 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 14:14:44 » |
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FFS Reg I quite liked the tolpuddle martyr tale doesn't mean I should join extinction rebellion just because they want to take us back to before the industrial revolution! Your arguments are clearly based on a false premise " my eyes are blue so is the sky therefore my eyes are the sky! Ha Ha
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Exiled Bob
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Likes a moan
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« Reply #33214 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 14:47:00 » |
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It's an observation, and as you rightly have done, offers itself to an interpretation.... in terms of an STFC football forum it's "science"
I'd say it belongs in the 80% bollocks section myself.
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Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia
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« Reply #33215 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 15:03:29 » |
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I'd say it belongs in the 80% bollocks section myself. Doesn't surprise me, I think Froggy's analysis has some merit....
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Exiled Bob
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Likes a moan
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« Reply #33216 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 15:28:27 » |
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Doesn't surprise me, I think Froggy's analysis has some merit....
I agree. I'm surprised The Don hasn't been mentioned. I never saw him play, 1st or 2nd time around, but for those that did how did his return compare to his first stint?
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« Last Edit: Monday, October 14, 2019, 15:57:51 by Exiled Bob »
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horlock07
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Lives in Northern Bastard Outpost
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« Reply #33217 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 15:30:10 » |
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There's often misplaced romance about re-signing former players on the basis of their previous capabilities. By definition, they were on the up and went on to greater things, and when they re-sign are typically on their way back down, so usually tarnish some of their former glory. I wouldn't really call it science: it's just a career curve.
Signing any player past their peak is only a question of how much they've lost: Peacock, Culverhouse and Hoddle still had it; Diagouraga, Nalis, Fenwick, Ince and so many others, not so much.
Playing devils advocate, is 31 past their peak. Based upon the detailed analysis elsewhere in this thread noting that Caddis is 31 and Peacock was c.30, Hoddle c.34 and Culverhouse c.30 undoubtedly Caddis will be a roaring success*. * I acknowledge this is nonsense, but if others can take such flights of fantasy to justify their tenuous points then so can I!
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Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia
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« Reply #33218 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 15:43:42 » |
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Playing devils advocate, is 31 past their peak.
Based upon the detailed analysis elsewhere in this thread noting that Caddis is 31 and Peacock was c.30, Hoddle c.34 and Culverhouse c.30 undoubtedly Caddis will be a roaring success*.
* I acknowledge this is nonsense, but if others can take such flights of fantasy to justify their tenuous points then so can I!
The difference being if I wanted to make a point about the relative success of 30+ players signing for STFC I'd look at the whole sample. Nothing to stop you doing the same....
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RobertT
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« Reply #33219 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 18:17:50 » |
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I have no idea whether or not Caddis would be a good signing, I haven't seen him play since he left us.
It's clearly bollocks to say it won't work because it didn't for Kerslake.
If Caddis is now crap, and we sign him, it clearly won't be a success, but it won't be because there is some indisputable fact that re-signing players makes them bad. Signing players worse than you need is bad, regardless of where they have been before us.
Was Ling a second time around success? One who would go on to shine in the top division as it happens. Maybe that means we'll rise through the leagues and Caddis will shine once again? I doubt it.
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Sippo
Living in the 80s
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I ain't gettin on no plane fool
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« Reply #33220 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 18:32:04 » |
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Some of our fans seem to think that ex players have done well in the past, Are our saviour. Look how many people wanted Sam Parkin back...
It may work out or it may not. There must be a reason he hasn’t been signed up by a club?
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If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're gonna see some serious shit...
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Costanza
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« Reply #33221 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 18:42:09 » |
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Paul Caddis is obviously broken enough to find himself training with a L2 club... but, you know, we are a L2 club.
Swindon Town past or not if L2 clubs are looking for Free Agents then Caddis is, probably, high up the on the list of realistic targets with his skillsets.
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Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia
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« Reply #33222 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 19:38:46 » |
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I have no idea whether or not Caddis would be a good signing, I haven't seen him play since he left us.
It's clearly bollocks to say it won't work because it didn't for Kerslake.
If Caddis is now crap, and we sign him, it clearly won't be a success, but it won't be because there is some indisputable fact that re-signing players makes them bad. Signing players worse than you need is bad, regardless of where they have been before us.
Was Ling a second time around success? One who would go on to shine in the top division as it happens. Maybe that means we'll rise through the leagues and Caddis will shine once again? I doubt it.
That's not what is being said... Lingy wasn't a success first time, only played 2 games, so wasn't someone returning with a reputation, rather a point to prove and aged 24, time to do it.
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OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR
- FACT!
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« Reply #33223 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 21:08:29 » |
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Wellens will need to consider the following re. Caddis...
Can he still play? Is he fit? Can he improve the squad? Does he want to play for us? Can we afford him?
The answers to these questions will inform the decision as to whether we sign him and nothing else.
You don't sign a player because he used to play for us, you don't NOT sign a player because he used to play for us. And you most certainly don't sign him based on how some other random players did when we re-signed them 20 odd years ago. Trying to make any connection whatsoever is utter bunkum.
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Frigby Daser
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« Reply #33224 on: Monday, October 14, 2019, 21:12:08 » |
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The two people who will make the decision over whether to sign him had no connection to the club when he was here last time. Unlike us, they can be completely objective. If he’s good enough now, he might sign. If he isn’t, he won’t. I’m guessing that’s why he’s training with us!
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