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Author Topic: Pensions  (Read 3438 times)
neville w

« Reply #30 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 10:59:05 »

Quote from: "Barry Scott"
Quote from: "neville w"
Quote from: "simon pieman"
I've decided pensions are too lame and I'd be better off putting money in high interest accounts instead. Unfortunately that involves putting money in high interest accounts, which I haven't done to date.



You are joking, right ?.


I think he's serious. Bar the tax benefits i think pensions are a complete waste of time, even with the new legislation.

Far too many restrictions on your money, you get excessively charged throughout the term of a plan, then purchase a wank annuity which only enables the seller of which to profit. I see pensions as lose, lose.

On the other hand, you get a maxi ISA, 7k tax free investment per year and run that for 20+ years. The charges on most ISAs i have experience with have annual charges at less than stakeholder, although you will pay stamp, and you have the same funds, plus extras. At any time you can surrender the plan in full with no tax issues and do with the money as you see fit.

With pensions you could reach 47, you're short of cash, you can't have your pension, you're fucked basically.

You then wait till you're 50, to be told the government has moved the goal posts and you have to wait to 55 to get the pension. Then when you do get it, depending on the value, you can only get a small percentage of the find value per annum plus a lump sum. No comparison in my eyes.


I hear what you say, I'm not a financial adviser.

However when you say 'apart from the tax benefits' that is a pretty big benefit to forego. You'd have to invest in an ISA which gives pretty good returns over and above a pension scheme to make up for that, being as how you'd have to invest post tax income in an ISA.

I completely agree with your comments about the inflexibility and tying up your cash. However I believe now you can withdraw 25% of your fund value tax free at 50 (for a reduced eventual pension admittedly) - this is a big change that's happened relatively recently if I'm reading all the info correctly.

The other massive benefit that you seem to have missed is that an employer will generally make contributions as well, thereby greatly increasing (usually at least doubling) the fund contributions.

Of course, that's no good for the self employed.

I agree with some of the other posters on here that property would seem to be a better investment, but there are fewer and fewer people able to choose this route because of the entry costs
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #31 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 11:47:42 »

Quote from: "neville w"


I hear what you say, I'm not a financial adviser.

However when you say 'apart from the tax benefits' that is a pretty big benefit to forego. You'd have to invest in an ISA which gives pretty good returns over and above a pension scheme to make up for that, being as how you'd have to invest post tax income in an ISA.

I completely agree with your comments about the inflexibility and tying up your cash. However I believe now you can withdraw 25% of your fund value tax free at 50 (for a reduced eventual pension admittedly) - this is a big change that's happened relatively recently if I'm reading all the info correctly.

The other massive benefit that you seem to have missed is that an employer will generally make contributions as well, thereby greatly increasing (usually at least doubling) the fund contributions.

Of course, that's no good for the self employed.

I agree with some of the other posters on here that property would seem to be a better investment, but there are fewer and fewer people able to choose this route because of the entry costs


You're right in pointing out my opinion of the tax benefits, yes you can get 22% added onto your premium, or you can claim this and more back from HMRC should your pension be older, but i feel charges, poor funds, and the enormous restrictions imposed upon you for this 22% are too much.

Employers can make contributions and depending on how they are paid, normally gross salary, then the employer can benefit also. I suppose these are good benefits becuase it's always good to get an employer to give you more for nothing. Wankers!

The self employed can technically pay into a plan as their own employer, so that benefit still exists, and for the self employed, not sole trader, but as a Private Limited Company, this could actually be a great means of side stepping the year end tax burden.

The major difference with a pension to an ISA, as in my example, is with an ISA you can use it as a share purchase vehicle. This way you can make some large investments, through the 'shell' of an ISA and enable returns of far greater than most pension funds.

I would esitimate vastly more than 60% of people remain in one fund, normally a standard manged fund, for the majority of the time, the returns on the majority of these funds, are below the returns that could be achieved on straight weight balanced FTSE 100 portfolio and property.

Of course, we're all more intelligent in hindsight, but seeing as most managed funds have around 80%+ within UK stocks, and are managed by experinced fund managers, returns, which invariably include charges, are far from ideal.

There are numerous funds available, although very, very few will be available to holders of pensions that give around 70% per year in interest. They are high risk, but some have given that for 5 straight years. The returns would be massive, although very high risk.

This money could then be invested in property to achieve the kind of exposure people lean towards.

You're correct in that you can take 25% from a pension at 50. But his Tonyness has decided to move this to 55 in 2010. Joy. No doubt this will move again.

Btw, incase you were wondering, i used to work at Zurich as a customer service agent, so i know pensions inside-out, upside-down and back to front.

Outside of that i have and always will be an investor on some level, but don't take that to be a comment making myself out to be the "big man" or someone important, i ain't despite how i may try to sound.  Smiley
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ron dodgers

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« Reply #32 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 11:56:02 »

cuurently 30.8% of my salary goes into my pension every month and when you look at it the returns are not that good but I'm staying with it now. Should have borrowed me bollix off in 94 but never mind.
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Simon Pieman
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« Reply #33 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:11:32 »

My employer only puts in a paltry 2.5% into pensions.

I wasn't kidding about not putting into pensions....they're riskier than I would like. I haven't stuck to my investing in ISAs and the like plan yet because I'm waiting to qualify. At the moment I'm still trying to find my feet after uni and I'll need to buy a car soon, but I'm still on trainees salary. Once I qualify I'll start putting away cash every month.
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #34 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:12:04 »

Quote from: "Barry Scott"
Btw, incase you were wondering, i used to work at Zurich as a customer service agent, so i know pensions inside-out, upside-down and back to front.


Haha, another Zurich-er. I used to be Zurich, outsourced to Capita now.

I see they've just completely re-vamped the company pension scheme, they're making staff make AVCs now if they want any kind of decent return.

I'm lucky that my non-contributory final salary pension was part of our TUPE agreement and there's no sign of us doing away with that yet **touches wood**
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spacey

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« Reply #35 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:21:31 »

Quote from: "Barry Scott"


1) A 70:30 Global investment fund normally is 70% Uk Equity and 30% Other Global Blue Chips.
2 & 3 are investments in government gilts. A Index linked Gilt has a interest rate which is designed to protect against inflation. IMAO Gilts are toss.
4) Most Cash funds are considered secure, much like Gilts, the returns are limited as they are similar to deposit accounts.

I would stick all my money in the 70:30 fund, it's not going to be too high risk, and will in all likelihood offer greater returns over the long term when compared to the others.

For some kind of balanced investment a 40% split within the cash fund and 60% in the 70:30 would provide some security and leave you linked to the equity markets to enough of a degree, to hopefully, increase returns.

I wouldn't be too concerned with security at your age, bang it all in the 70:30 (or see if they offer any high risk funds, India, Russia...) then leave it be till you're of an age where you can be concerned with the volatility of the fund.


You must have really paid attention when you worked at Zurich! I spent most of my time looking at the clock on the cafe out of the window and playing bowls with the complaints manager using some sweets one of his relatives bought him from Disneyland.
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #36 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:27:35 »

Quote from: "sam_stfc"
Quote from: "Barry Scott"
Btw, incase you were wondering, i used to work at Zurich as a customer service agent, so i know pensions inside-out, upside-down and back to front.


Haha, another Zurich-er. I used to be Zurich, outsourced to Capita now.

I see they've just completely re-vamped the company pension scheme, they're making staff make AVCs now if they want any kind of decent return.

I'm lucky that my non-contributory final salary pension was part of our TUPE agreement and there's no sign of us doing away with that yet **touches wood**


I only walked out about 2 months ago, i couldn't be fagged with the pension to be honest, i saw the job as a kind of stepping stone, so let it be and didn't even look into it.

I suppose an AVC is not a bad thing, i vaguely remember some info about the scheme pre-AVC and was annoyed that with planning to work there for a short time, i'd rather they paid me more and fuck the scheme off!
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #37 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:32:57 »

Quote from: "spacey"


You must have really paid attention when you worked at Zurich! I spent most of my time looking at the clock on the cafe out of the window and playing bowls with the complaints manager using some sweets one of his relatives bought him from Disneyland.


I just remember stuff.  Cool
 
Bowls must've been fun, i generally spent my time doing as little as possible, being as late as possible and buttering everyone up enough to not get sacked for doing below minimum work.

They play "Slap-Ball" now. No explanation necessary i feel.
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #38 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:42:48 »

What team were you in Barry Scott?
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #39 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:47:15 »

Actually, I remember who you are now. Spacey told me at Rovers.
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #40 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:50:49 »

CS3 I believe? Natalie Telfer was the boss.

We've spoken, i was going to introduce myself, because it was specifically you i had to speak to. Think you were having a bad day, so left it at that.  Cheesy
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #41 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 12:52:53 »

Quote from: "sam_stfc"
Actually, I remember who you are now. Spacey told me at Rovers.


Cool bananas. I'm shy and quiet in the flesh and generally look like i'm scowling, well so i'm told.  Cool
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neville w

« Reply #42 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 13:01:44 »

Quote from: "Barry Scott"

Btw, incase you were wondering, i used to work at Zurich as a customer service agent, so i know pensions inside-out, upside-down and back to front.

Outside of that i have and always will be an investor on some level, but don't take that to be a comment making myself out to be the "big man" or someone important, i ain't despite how i may try to sound.  Smiley


No, I wasn't wondering, you clearly know the subject, and thanks for some of the clarification.

I still quite fancy the idea of "free money" from the Government (tax relief) and the employer, and I'm reluctantly prepared to forfeit flexibility and some mickey taking charges to get that. I'm also further down the life track than someone just making their first pension decisions, which definitely colours the thinking.
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #43 on: Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 13:02:43 »

Quote from: "Barry Scott"
Think you were having a bad day, so left it at that.  Cheesy


Every day is a bad day in this place.
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