Thetownend.com

Saw a debate on Twitter and thought I'd bring it here. To clarify, by 'out of town' I mean on the outskirts (ala Reading)

What do you think?

(I don't think it'll happen, but interested to gauge opinion)

Not for me. The CG must be one of the best sited grounds in the country. Easy to drive to, walk from the station, plenty of pubs, fast exit. It’s perfect where it is.

Spot on

Reading? Fuck me that’s a bit far.

Keep it where it is.

Or move to Bangkok.

I seem to remember there was an article a few years back that proved moving away from the centre has been largely detrimental to communities, especially clubs who made that move in the lower leagues.

If we moved to a site in the Swindon boundaries with better access to roads and public transport then maybe it would be acceptable.

As long as the ground was built to accomodate a similar capacity now 15k ish with the possibility of expanding further in the future if demand warranted rather than a tiny sub 10k new build like Shrewsbury, Colchester or Northampton.

For me the spiritual home of the club is the County Ground and I would prefer to keep it where it is (certainly for the foreseeable future) and partly because my dads ashes are there 5 foot deep under the goalposts at the Town End, so for selfish reasons too.

Colchester to name one.

This sums it up perfectly for me.
I'd hate a soulless bowl on the edge of the town or a retail park. Just the thought fills me with dread.

No chance. Shrewsbury, Colchester, Oxford to name but 3 are the likely outcomes if we go down that route, no thanks.

No thanks.

Stay. Definitely stay

I voted stay put but realistically, a club that survives into the next decade would be nice.

Stay put

But like other discussions on this topic held before. Can a realistic rebuild on the existing site match Clems plans. Are we too close to houses for this to be realistic on this site?

Are you a Biggins or a Kaler type dame?

Clem could do worse than trying to seek an audience with Paul Fletcher.
He'd know what to do with the not so grand old lady.

Can absolutely guarantee The County Ground will still look the same in 10 years time.

Exactly, it won’t happen in a residential area. If we don’t move, it won’t happen.

Could easily fit a bigger ground in, especially if cricket club is relocated.

It’s an archaic, dilapidated shit hole that doesn’t generate enough income.
We definitely need to do something about it - what exactly remains to be seen and could probably only be judged in hindsight.

I’d lose no sleep over moving out of the Town Centre and away from the CG.

I think I can say with confidence that the council will move heaven and earth to stop the club relocating within its authority boundary as they would be stuck with a white elephant falling to pieces with no money to do anything to it and no rental income at the very least. Therefore it is in its interests to have a generous and sympathetic attitude towards who ever takes over the freehold of SN1. After all it could be argued that once the trust and A N Other buy that freehold it no longer becomes the councils responsibility. I would therefore suggest strongly to both the Trust & A N Other that they submit plans for future development of the site for some sort of authorisation once the ink has dried on the sale documents. No one wants a white elephant like the mechanics institute to hang round like a bad smell.

Im well out of the know with regards to what can and can not be done with the land.

...but...wouldn’t the council (if they legally can) love to be rid of the football club so they could knock the stadium down and either build houses or sell to a developer to build houses.

The problem is in and around Swindon there are no sites suitable as the ones looked at 20+ years ago have all been developed I.e jct 15 & 16, Opposite the Honda factory and Shaw Forest

The CG is a fantastic ground for football fans, both home fans and travelling supporters.

Whether it is a facility that can sustain a professional club in the 21st century is another matter.

I’d like to think that intelligent design could provide all that’s required in the current location.

I’ve posted before that the only reason I’d accept a move was if a new ground was part of a ‘sports village’ development that intelligently integrated mass infrastructure for sport, health, well-being and housing designed for those who want to live in that kind of environment.

Relocate the cricket club to Mannington Rec and resite the CG where it is. Rotate the ground 90 degrees and sit it a bit further away from Shrivvy Road. Job done.

If only it was that simple! Good luck trying to get the protected cricket pavilion relocated!

Fuck you

 :D

Just leave it there, it's not in the way of any development. Could even turn it into the new Town End bar.

It can be sympathetically raised to the ground with a coordinated petrol bomb attack. Just to be clear I am only kidding. There must be a way to dismantle it and resite it at as suggested Mannington Rec. Cost a few quid I’m sure but the rebuilt and maybe remodelled structure would be top drawer.

The CG site is more than adequate in size and it's been repeated on here many times before the houses behind the Stratton Bank aren't really an issue in terms of redevelopment. We could something like at the City Ground and just have a reduced height some point across it if there are light issues.

There's plenty of room behind the DRS, Arkell's and Town End for our needs and worst case you could always leave a road/walkway underneath the stands to maintain the existing access similar to what Fulham wanted to do or are doing at Craven Cottage.

It's not like we are going to ever need a ground greater than 20k capacity so there is more than enough room at the CG for our current needs and in reality all needs we will have in the future.

Sold out every week and a ballot required?....then yes.

But thats not the issue.

TE and Bank need to be redone though.

Away fans in an away end would improve the atmosphere.

I like the County Ground. It oozes character and can raise one hell of an atmosphere when full.

I'd like to see a 'new and improved' County Ground rather than a completely new design.

A smaller version of Cincinatti FC's TQ Stadium would be good.

https://tqlstadium.com/stadium-news/the-details-behind-the-bailey-20

Full sight of the pitch from the bar may be an issue though I guess! - you could incorporate the DR Stand into this easily enough.

These got a decent one as well

https://www.mnufc.com/stadium

The clear end would work for the Bank maybe.

Oh, and the location is near perfect right now, nowhere better in Swindon exists these days.

A lot of its down to interpretation by Councils, as an example this is the relationship between St James Park and Leazes Terrace (which is a grade I listed building) in Newcastle (its actually even worse now as this is the corner adjacent to the bloody huge Leazes End stand).

(https://i2-prod.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article8840804.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/JS59115986.jpg)

Coincidentally my bedroom window as a first year student was the top floor one to the left of the projection on Leazes Terrace (the year before I started was the year NUFC and STFC were promoted from L1 and as the corner was unfilled that year you could see the whole pitch from the bedroom window).  

Lots of things to consider, though can't say i'm tied to the CG particularly.

There were so many examples of clubs who built new stadiums and pushed on as a team afterwards. Less so with redevelopment, and also if the new stadium is a bit shit or tiny.

What they need to do though for me is heavily consider atmosphere generation. The key for me, that you see in Germany, particularly Dortmund, but also at the Millennium Stadium is really steep sides. I know there are limits post Hillsborough, but accept that fact the ground never needs to be much above 30k and get as many fans as close to the pitch as possible. None of this shallow shit. I want those steep kop like banks and a proper atmosphere.

(https://sports-images.vice.com/images/2016/08/08/untitled-article-1470650583-body-image-1470651723.jpg?resize=800:*)

Cut out the lower two tiers and just give me that steep top tier next to the pitch.

In fact i would also abandon the corners, so the stands can be close to the pitch, so the corner bit is only filled in half way up as it so close together. Like how the germans do, see below for corners. Really make it different and give it some personality.

(https://sports-images.vice.com/images/2016/08/08/untitled-article-1470650583-body-image-1470651434.jpg?resize=800:*)

I was just looking at the satellite image of the CG and the problem with renovating behind the DR and the Stratton bank are restricted due to houses. However there is a mass of land where the cricket pitch is where we could renovate to our hearts content. Move the cricket pitch to Taunton or wherever, jobs a goodun!

We dont want your junk thanks!

After all the fuss about the houses behind the bank, didn't something get planning permission but never built. If so does anyone know what it looked like and how many it seated?

I'd be delighted with that - and that may be the most we ever get.  You're right on atmosphere and I personally just love the "iconic" floodlights and Rolex clock.  They're like our Twin Towers  ;).  Clem mentioned executive suites.  The beloved Townend as well as the Stratton have looked especially shoddy with the bolt on seats.

We'll probably get a lot less than that but in an ideal world I'd love to see new, purpose built facilities at the CG site that may (if STFC were somehow gifted the benefit) see a share in new income streams of permanent benefit to the club.

However I just imagine the 'traders or the Pox or Cardiff City turning up with frightened business persons or gym users and staff cowering in the carnage inflicted on the shiny new development.

As separate issues we'll also need to consider


1.  expandability  (hello Ryman League  ;))
2.  safe standing
3.  green/sustainability design

To answer my own question, planning application T/94/0807 approved on 24th August 1994 for demo of terrace and erection of new stand seating 2,760 people.

Sadly only decision notice online, no drawings.

I like the Stadion Miejski Lubin stadium in Poland, the ground of Joe Romanski team.

(https://thefootballmanageraddict.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/lublin-stadium-23241.jpg)

A 16,000 capacity ground compact and could possibly encompass the DRS into its build to save on some costs.

Was basically a replica of the DRS if I remember rightly, can't remember if it had a corner infill or not.

You do remember correctly, and there were no infills in the plan.

Didn't think it did as the floodlight pylon was still there and obviously that wouldn't be possible with an infill. Swear I saw a drawing on the internet sometime in the last 5 or 6 years as well.

I'm not a fan of smaller bowl type grounds, the only ones that work for me are stadiums like Wembley or Millennium. Give me a 50% size Villa Park, any day.

Yeah you did, I saw it too. A while back as you say but I cannot put my finger on what it looked like 100%.

Well if it had consent once it will probably get consent again.
Looking at it, with the Arkells, DRS and this SB development would give a capacity of c. 13,430 + whatever can be shoe horned onto the TE.

Would do for now.

Realistically if you did some kind of horse shoe layout connecting the DRS, TE and Arkells leaving the Stratton bank as a stand alone stand you’d easily get a capacity in excess of 20k. Even without any infills doubling the TE size alone would get us a 16k or 17k capacity which is double our average attendances for the last quarter of a century so more than sufficient.

If it means we end up at some out of town soulless bowl (like Colchester), then definitely not

That would be three stands and a wooden ends behind the goal.....no thanks

Only be marginally different from the piss stains tri stad.

Exactly then the stains will accuse us of copying!

Hey? I’m not saying we wouldn’t have a stand there, I’m saying stand-alone much like the Atyeo stand is at City to deal with the possible constraints that may exist with the added benefit of giving natural segregation between home and away fans. The other 3 have no such constraints so no reason not to have them at a similar height and link them.

At some point unfortunately the floodlight pylons will need replacing and I’m hoping we go for a modern equivalent with a nod to the history rather than just lights mounted on top of stand roofing.

Fair point and I would be happy if a redeveloped County ground looked like Anton zGate

If we were to copycat a ground, i've always been envious of how good Deepdale looks.

I like the big steep stands at Deepdale

They’d have a point though if that happened.

Mind you looking at our out dated Townend on TV it's not much higher than their wooden fence

Oh it is, just an optical illusion that it is not, besides it holds a few thousand more fans than their fence.

Precisely.  You'll only regret it once it's gone.  A traditional ground at the centre of the community it represents.  That must never change.  Yes, we're long overdue redevelopment.  But never move.  You'll never have a more perfect location for a small city football ground.

No.  Where would we find another ground with so many facilities so close ?.  As already said, wouldn't want to finish up in a field miles from anywhere like Yeovil, Colchester etc.   Just update what we've got.

A new Town End and new Stratton Bank Stand would see The County Ground being more than adequate for a few more years. Paint the bloody mess that is the top of The Arkells would make a big difference too.

The Stratton bank will always be a problem in its current location and it will be difficult to get approval for a roof due to the rights the houses close to the ground in shrivenham road have regarding losing natural daylight

Not if the roof is the same height as the top of the Rolex?

As mentioned previously, something like the away end at Forest may be achievable.

Not true. Planning permission was granted to build a new stand the same height as the DRS when the DRS was built, the club simply didn’t have the funds to build both. I’d imagine that planning permission should be a formality if they go with the angle that consent was given previously.

Not sure if that's true but if you have more knowledge than me maybe it's a possibility but even at that height the width of the roof could still be enough for the residents to block it.

I wasn't aware of that as that would have been nearly 30 years ago but if correct there is hope that it can happen once the funds are available

The chairman at the time was Rikki Hunt. He was under the impression that a grant from The Football League was available to help towards the cost of the 2 stands. When he found out that a grant was only available for one stand they made the decision to just rebuild what was The Shrivenham Road Stand at the time and come back to Stratton Bank at a later time. Sadly that never happened and we all know that Hunt and the others were forced to resign when the clubs financial problems came to head.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/9bcd07d863ce1fa63b37be92f82b5c1/Possible-County-Ground-Redevelopment?hl=en

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/54690f9e3dfa19aca6b054b08bac9322/Possible-County-Ground-Redevelopment?hl=tr

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/v1.0/publiccontent/d8ec6b46-b54f-43a2-b7de-cfb0a2bcf4a3

Apologies if these don’t work, I’m a bit of a duffer at this.

Wow great illustrations and thanks for sharing as that's the first time that I've seen them.

There are one or two CG ones on that site.

I just did a quick search hoping to find a pic of the redevelopment proposed some years ago and came across these.

There is hope for this proud club on every we get the right owner in charge!

It was the Football Grounds Improvement Trust that funded 75% of redevelopment costs post Hillsborough. It was paid from a levy on the pools (remember that). There was no limit on grants for stands as Derby paid for Pride Park through the scheme.

IIRC the club applied for a 3600 new Stratton Bank Stand with the same design and height as a the DRS. The height got modified to that of the Rolex Clock after residents objected and the new stand was going to be about 2600-2800.

Ray Hardman was Chairman at the time and think it was the finances after going down again in 1994/95 that scuppered. Of course the money we splashed on Joey Beauchamp in 1994 would have paid our 25% of the cost!!

As Jimmy Quinn posted it’s 30 years ago so the facts and stories etc get eroded in time. Either way every owner since has failed to bring The County Ground into this century. Hopefully Clem and Axis can change that.

Well said Grim and let's hope the new owner has ambitions to redevelop the stadium high on his list of priorities and not just something that gets mentioned then forgot about.

The next owner will have little choice but to do something with the ground.  Rich Pullen mentioned this on the LSPOD chat with Clem - we're now so far behind other clubs when it comes to stadium development that it makes less & less sense to continue doing nothing.  This is 30 yrs overdue.  You can't keep sweating a dilapidated asset forever.

I totally agree and whenever the Stratton bank has been opened in recent seasons the away fans slate the state of the toilets and facilities so it's mind boggling that Power ever thought he could get us in the championship within five years.

Didn’t we get Permission to put a roof on the bank at one point.
I want to say during the Fitton / Black regime...but...they decided it was a bit like polishing a turd & the Bank wasn’t open often enough to justify the cost of putting the roof on.

I thought the same. I always thought that the we couldn't get a roof argument was a lot like the Honda board member myth

That’s my recollection. Most things behind the scenes in football are like Chinese whispers.

I’d assume we would run into an issue with the residents if we were going to put something significantly taller in place of the bank but a roof has always been possible - just complete unnecessary...

Weren't the Trust funding a £500K investment to put a roof on the Stratton Bank a few years back?

I've yet to see anyone mention a suitable location as there's nowhere in or around Swindon unless yougo towards Chippenham

For purely selfish reasons, I support a move to Devizes.

Economically, a ground share with OUFC may make good sense.

It would be like paying behind closed doors as nobody would turn up apart from the tea lady

Your regular attempts at being a WUM are quite frankly shit.

Thanks for the considered reply.  No wind up. JQ posted about potential sites. There's must be somewhere north of Swindon. That could be convenient/ attractive to both clubs. Whether that will happen is a different matter

Maybe Power will surprise us and announce he's bought more land in Inglesham to build a 20000 all seater stadium!

With it's wonderful transport links  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

Why do you think that it would be even slightly beneficial to STFC to share a ground with its most fierce rivals?

The more you post the more I am convinced you are not a Swindon Town fan.

The economic benefits in terms of sharing costs are obvious. 

Your second point made me smile.

If and I mean a big if.....,there was any major redevelopment at the County ground then Cheltenham could be a good option 

We're about 5 years away from a Train station don't you know!  :toocool:

FGR are geographically our closest neighbours, TBH with our dwindling fanbase Webswood stadium could be an option. #Powerwantsusrelegated.

Finally twigged, JJ?

Well mate the clues are there aren't they?

 Nice :nod:

What economic benefits? No self respecting Swindon fan would even contemplate sharing a stadium with the piss stains.

poor transport wise though. I'd prefer Cheltenham, Rovers or Reading if we had to share for a season

----
JB(Z)'s attempts at wind ups and snipes are poor efforts

JBZ has been posting for 8 years :eek:

I ignore the cretin. Shame his posts, if quoted, still show though.

Be interesting to know how many of those posts ever contain even the merest hint of optimism, or good fortune, or hope for the future. They are, inevitably, ‘downer’ posts whose only intention is to get a rise.

Sad fuck.

I can't see what the posts by 'Audrey' above say but I hope that they are complimentary.

The point is that ground sharing may be a necessary evil for lower league teams in next 20 to 30 years.  If so, this will mean that clubs have to share with their local rivals. 

The passage of time may also mean that rivalries change or diminish. In 30 years' time, later generations of supporters won't know anything about a 'tear up' in the town end in the 1970s etc.  So, what might be unpalatable now, might be acceptable to future generations.

(https://i.imgur.com/MrW5mUX.gif)

 :hmmm:

So how did you know he posted something?

Ok then.

Lets just say we take your suggestion seriously, it fails miserably on the single biggest reason for redeveloping a football ground.  Year round income - to share a ground in a neutral location as you suggest would mean plonking it somewhere in the middle of nowhere, say Faringdon.  No chance it will create enough income so any cost savings are wiped out and then some.

This is also why the debate around 14k,15k,17,18,20,25k etc are sort of moot.  The point is to develop a facility that can be used for more than 23 times a season with people sat in seats.  Even on those 23 days, with a mere 4 hours of operating time, you need to maximise the non-seat income.

Says "this user is currently ignored"   :hmmm:

Yes, that has been noted on other threads.  Some thought would have to be given to what else you can offer. 

Taking this seriously for a moment. I wonder how many teams you could ground share with and still have a decent playing surface? For example, could you merge Highworth, Supermarine and Swindon? If you did, could you develop one stadium, have one for training and sell the third to finance the other two? Are the teams spaced far enough apart in leagues so that you could develop players through from one team to the next? If so, that would make more sense to me than to have FL teams sharing grounds.

JBZ comes across as an FGR fan

I’d imagine any more than 2 and that would be extremely difficult to arrange fixture wise. With two it’s fairly easy with one home and one away each game...but...adding a third so it has to be one home and two away. Unless you had one play on the Sunday instead...or...had back to back games Saturday perhaps.

Also whilst the more teams you have splits the costs multiple ways it also does the same to any revenue generated.

Which is basically why football stadiums need to be football stadiums on match days and something else the other 340+ days of the year - with the large majority of the revenue generated from ‘other’ going back into the football club.


Are there any figures anywhere as to what sort of income vs expenditure Coventry’s Casino did?

I didn't just live most of my life within the sounds of the CG to finally move out to Faringdon to have such suggestions banded around on a football forum.  Perhaps we should move it to Alpharetta, Duluth or Cumming, see how you like it..  I don't want to walk out of my front door to a load of yellow shirted inbreds :D

As a kid I used to walk from ferndale to the County Ground and there was someting magical seeing the floodlights lighting up the sky on a winters night 

Haha - have a plenty good enough stadium smack bang in Downtown Atlanta!  The baseball team moved outside the City but most of the fans are from the Burbs anyway.

The club can easily develop on the existing footprint with a bit of creativity.  The purchase of the freehold ensures it can be held as an asset which opens up financing.  Lets say Clem gets his hands on the club, then we can expect some discounts on build costs to provide him his brochure to expand his business.

The location lends itself to a Hotel (despite people moaning everytime a hotel is suggested on the Adver site Swindon fills up most of it's budget/3 star rooms, clearly not from tourists).  Footprint usage would be small and you get an onsite car park.

The Arkells would need to be knocked down and started again.  The same for the TE and Bank.  The DR stand isn't even being used to full potential yet - existing option to expand to a second concourse space.

While it is a different planet, learning from the MLS stadiums would be worthwhile - they are all pushing the catering aspect.  Restaurants that can be leased out year round, matchdays get a boon and then the catering space for matchdays can be massively improved.  While Atl Utd may get 40k a game, the sheer volume of catering sales must be eyewatering compared to UK teams.  I get that many fans may not come before kick off to the concourses, the Spurs redevelopment is a bigger version of what is needed.  They went after getting fans to stay an hour or two after a game, expanding the revenue opportunities.  The CG is a watch the game and get out stadium today bar the Legends Lounge.  Even that feels a bit like you are in the way after a game.

I think you could get Arkells onboard to work with the club on that side of things.

Nothing is a massive ask, it's all about engaging with the fans and giving them something more to spend their time and money on.  Lease space under the ground to get the year round revenue - you don't have to be the operator.

Good points you make but if your going to take three stands down which needs doing the new owner/s would be better off doing whatever it takes to purchase the cricket ground (I know there's issues over the pavilion) and starting from scratch similar to what Leicester did then the existing County ground site could be used for numerous things subject to council planning.

I agree that there is a lot to be learned from our friends over the pond (would be interesting to know whether that might include 'Able'). 

US sports offer more opportunities to sell hot dogs and the like on "game day" because baseball and US style football go on for in excess of 3 hours. 

Twice I have stayed at the Chelsea hotel and had business conference’s in the millennium suite. The cost ran into £10,000’s there is money to be made clearly. Just need lots of things to fall into place and as I said the other the day the council will have a massive say in all of this. Let’s see where they stand once Clem is in charge, long, long way to go.

I'm talking about my experience of the MLS games, which are still the same duration as traditional football the last time I checked.

They've taken a few things from the other sports, that's for sure, but a growing trend has been Beer Halls - I believe Spurs included this and onsite restaurants.  They are also very good at cultivating the corporate aspect without the stuffiness you get in the UK at times from doing this.

It's clearly just good marketing, but the club here did a lot of community engagement, including lots of local bars.  It's an oddity that the UK players tend to be seen out at bars and clubs but never in official capacity.  I imagine someone has the idea it's not a good look and it should only be hospitals and schools, but the fans are all in pubs.

A new stadium with first class facilities would bring in a new fanbase just look what happened to Reading once they left Elm Park

Fair enough. Reading your post quickly, I read MLS as MLB.

I've never remembered my trip back from an MLB game, or much of the game.

Depends whether you want an audience or fans in the ground.

Surely that's the reason you would build one!

And Swansea & Hull

Brighton!

PL football will also attract new followers

Why do you assume we’d get any of that, all the teams you mention have had rich supporters pump in money or a council build a community stadium to operate alongside a rugby team. We are far more likely to end up with something like Chesterfield, Colchester, Oxford or Shrewsbury.  A mundane off the shelf lego stadium that is cheap to build and ‘functional’ and none of those clubs have kicked on as a result of a new ground. Unless a new stadium would be something spectacular then money is far better spent on the existing site, no one is going spend over the odds to build a stand out stadium!

People don’t come to see a new stadium.
People come to see a successful team.

You want more fans through the turnstiles you need to win more matches. Simple.

The two go hand in hand as Reading were averaging 5500-6000 before moving to their new stadium. Swindon has many new young families that have moved here and that's the ones you could attract if the stadium is modern

If Clem was given the go ahead to build it though why would he build a mundane one. He would surely want to build /renovate so he can showcase it

I suspect that many moving into the town, if interested in football, will retain their allegiances to other clubs.

I think it's correct to say that success on the pitch brings punters in. The most oft used recent example on this forum is the div 4 match up with Exeter last year.

I disagree JBZ,many of those families will have young children who could be the future generation of supprters

Reading took 10 years and very deep pockets to get there though. It wasn't a quick thing.

Swansea was impressive in their transformation. But they also had the rugby and a shed load of council help too

Fair point and don't forget Reading also had the Rugby money but no then sure what year that was introduced

You may be right. Time will tell.  Leaving aside the prior allegiances point and, speaking only from personal experience, it has been a challenge to maintain interest in lower league football in our household. 

Not necessarily a formality as policy has shunted a fair bit in 30 years, but still achievable.

The club actually royally fucked up by not making a technical start when they got the consent, especially after the ball ache of getting there in the first place.

I knew many new fans who went to the Exeter home game in Feb 2020 and were suddenly hooked until lockdown intervened so Imagine what the potential could be with a first class stadium

What he wants and what he can afford are likely to be completely different things. A ground in the middle of an industrial estate similar to Colchester, Shrewsbury or a council estate like Oxford with stands no better than the existing DRS is a massive step backwards IMO and just detach the club from supporters even more. Even a Colchester or Shrewsbury style ground is likely to cost between £10m and £20m at least, something more spectacular like Brighton would likely be double or treble the cost.  He's not going to pay that showcase or no showcase!

Also with our history I wouldn't fancy risking the build process of a new ground, if anything happens or anyone pulls out during the build process we could quite easy be stuck with a half finished ground or worse still homeless!

He's not?...

How do we know that?

Lets be honest there are two areas of priority the bank and TE. Now the bank would be nice to improve facilities (and aesthetics) but doesn't really offer the 24/7/365 revenues stream the club desperately needs, where as the TE and space behind offer the best developmental possibilities.

No idea what cash Clem ha so not sure if anyone can comment on his capability, however, its also worth bearing in mind that to do the fundamental rebuild many are advocating we are probably looking at 12-18 months playing elsewhere.

Or build away from the CG and not have to look to play elsewhere?

Stick a temp roof on the Bank - much like what Pompey have done with their away end.

Move TE fans to the Bank. Rebuild the TE, move fans back then turn attention on the Bank.

If you are going piecemeal even simpler than that. The TE only sits 1,846 with the crowds we get these could easily be accommodated within the DRS/Arkels  (for a start the 1400 away in Arkels could be reclaimed) whilst the work is being done, no need to piss cash up the wall to put a roof on the SB if its just for away supporters for 12 months.

That was always the plan back in the 90s in exactly that order, but things happened and funding was applied for and never actually finalised.

They tried again in the early 00's too, the temp roof would have only cost about £250k I think but the then owner coudlnt raise the funds so again was thrown on the back burner.

In L2 that is a better option but at the previous 2 times we were in the Championship (equivalent) and top half of L1 so needed the extra capacity for the 3 or 4 big games we had each season.

In this league not an issue at all.

Would the EFL sanction not giving any seats at all for away fans? If yes, then that’s the way to go.

Bank's covered in seats!

You say covered....it was before lockdown, apparently a lot are missing now or broken, the Bank will need a lot of money spent on it to make it "habitable" again.

People get too hung up on the cost element - nobody pays cash for these things.  Granted, we are not going to get a 100m+ stadium because we'd never afford the payments, but everyone finances their stadium builds.  If Clem wanted it, he'd go after external financing first, which would be secured against the asset - hence ownership of the freehold being critical because it maximises the value of whatever you build on top of it.  Then it is a case of understanding what income you can expect vs. the cost of financing that project over 20-30 years.  The trick is not to over extend yourself and hedge on too much income.  In the scenario Clem is the owner, he gets the benefit of owning most of the cost of construction, cutting out a significant portion of the cost.

At our level, you are usually looking at less than two grand per seat in construction costs, based on various examples.  If he can lower that a little, retain the DR stand, then he should be able to finance a stadium build.

A tax write-off must be worth a fair lump as well for Clem if he invests in a Stadium.

Because he's a businessman and I still can't see a businessman and non-supporter paying for something 'pretty'. Based on what we know he isn't super rich so a £20m+ super stadium seems like a pure pipedream IMO and that's before finding some land and buying it is factored into the equation along with the infrastructure costs that the council would demand as part of the planning permission.

The CG has plenty of room to cater for everything we need with the added bonus that it already has one pretty decent stand that just needs a good clean and some paint so that one less thing to pay for. You could make a very good stadium on the existing footprint with a bit of imagination in the design.

As per Clem's interview on the LSPOD, any redevelopment would be staged and on the current site.

And that to me is the right decision. With our average attendances we can easily afford to close one or even 2 stands at a time and still have sufficient capacity to meet demand for most matches.

As others have said it's success that ultimately brings people through the gate not a shiny new stadium.

Staged developments on site tend to give the best results anyway - City Ground, Hawthorns, Vicarage Road, Ashton Gate... great mid-size stadiums with soul and character, but facilities too.

Not many examples of smaller clubs/stadiums though - I guess cos most are financed by selling land for houses and pissing off to the edge of town. Orient is the only one that comes to mind.

I am by no means expecting Clem to build a brand new Makedski type stadium from scratch, but even doing it stage by stage is going to cost a fair few million.

And we don't actually know how wealthy Clem is so to say he's not wealthy enough is nothing but guesswork. According to him, his company turns over 200 million+ every year, and we don't know what other investments he might have.

From 4 years ago.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/15392479.swindon-town-to-explore-county-ground-development-after-arrival-of-non-executive-vice-chairman-clem-morfuni/

At least power stuck to his word on one thing by saying in 2013 he had no interest in redeveloping the County Ground😀

Any redevelopment would need to address the serious structural defect of the seats facing the pitch.

I remember a few years back when the Trust published some plans that were to include a "first" for a football stadium at the time.
Don't know what it was but hopefully the Trust (fans) will get some input as and when this happens.

For an in place redevelopment, Preston would be a good model to follow, or more realistically Plymouth maybe.

Not sure that Clem would want a bulk standard identikit development on his Checkatrade cv.

Hotel and conferencing facilties would be the tried and trusted method for generating additional income.
A 24/7 beer hall and concert venue would be the personal preference  :)

Anyway, here's hoping for driver's to one day just stop on the magic roundabout and get out to gaze in wonder at the Neuschwanstein Castle of football grounds.

Bulldoze it and they will come.

What about the ‘no outside investment’ bit? Fat, lying, twat.

And that :clap: :clap:

Yeah, have been to both quite regularly, my company handle all of the Hospitality outlets there..  I am sure you drive by our Global HQ regularly if you drive through midtown..  I'll wave at you from the 15th floor next time I am over :D

Bollocks to that, give us a shout and we can have a pint, I'm only 30 mins away.

I was listening to the Clem interview on the LSP and he stated he was involved in the build of the Perth Glory stadium, which does have a few similarities to the County Ground.

https://footballtripper.com/australia/perth-glory-stadium/

Certainly appears to have 'character'

I have no idea of what it would cost to either redevelop The County Ground but I was absolutely stunned earlier today to see Liverpool have permanently closed Anfield Road for the foreseeable future to create a construction site behind The Anfield Road End. Adding 7,000 seats at a ridiculous cost of £60 million. No pressure Clem, we’re just happy if the scoreboard and PA system works.

Anfield road end is a right shithole.  Much like the CG and in comparison with the other stands a bit of a joke.  It was weird to be there a couple of years ago and seeing that end was exactly the same as when I was there in '94!

Stanley park behind😀

The DRS was only built in the 90s though and is more than sufficient. That can be left alone.

The bank can be knocked and build something basic and small with a roof. Might lose a big of capacity but can make that back up down the line but a full sized stand at the other end.

Only downside is losing a row or two of parking spaces.

The Arkells stand development would be the big job, but no houses to worry about there.

It's a shame we can't do what Leicester & Spurs have done build a new stadium right next to the old one. If only we could relocate the cricket ground and it's protected stand!

If you have the money and the will, anything is possible.

The site of the Oasis with the land for the phantom ski slope opposite is big enough, but parking in and out would be insanity.

I really don't think there is another viable option without going on the outskirts like Reading did.

I can't  think of anywhere on the outskirts anymore unless you went along the M4 Towards Chippenham

It would be easier to dismantle the cricket club pavilion and resite that somewhere rather than try to look for a place big enough for a football pitch, stands and parking with access by all modes of transport.

Where was the original 'Front Garden' idea? What is now Wichelstowe?

This one is irrelevant while Clem is in charge though - he has already stated that he has no intention of moving from the CG

Yes over towards junction 16

It would depend where it was. There's nothing viable around the existing site; selfishly the cricket ground is less utilised so should be taken over, as long as they have somewhere suitable to play that's accessible to all via transport links.

If it means the absolute survival of the football club then I'd also back a move but it would be a massive shame to lose the central location, especially given the community that Clem has spoken of.

Stay put. No need to move.

They could have a lovely cricket ground at Mannington rec   ;)

I have relaid the pitch at Legends Lounge Towers.