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Swindon Town FC => Players => Topic started by: singingiiiffy on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 22:56:23



Title: The defence
Post by: singingiiiffy on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 22:56:23

Any solutions? The main issues seem to be individual mistakes. are these the type of things that should should stop?

Caddis/hunt,
Conroy/broadbent, Odimayo/ grounds,
Donohue/Iandolo

For me that should be plenty solid. i wonder how much impact the wobbly-ish keeper is having on the back 4.

This season is going to be a huge struggle going into every game with a minimum goal against before ko.

A new manager may want to bring in new players but before the season i think everyone would be happy with the options we had and i think it can still work. kovac might be a different scenario though and whilst many goals were not his fault he still makes enough small mistakes to make the back 4 unsettled.



Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Quagmire on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 23:03:46
The solution is getting Zeki Fryers and Dion Conroy fit, and quickly.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Batch on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 23:05:06
I get mistakes happen.

But they keep happening.

is our midfield providing enough protection? or are they just playing shit?


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: DV Canio on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 23:11:54
First we need our best defenders actually on the pitch together.
Then try and do that every game.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: 4D on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 23:30:53
Perhaps the 4-2-3-1 is leaving the defence a bit isolated?


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: singingiiiffy on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 23:31:04
The solution is getting Zeki Fryers and Dion Conroy fit, and quickly.

do we have any dates for these guys as our season could really turn quite quickly. i have been worried about goal scoring but we do seem to create especially with the likes of jonny smith. i doubt we will have striker in double figures this season but we have shown we can score from a few sources.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Costanza on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 23:50:49
First we need our best defenders actually on the pitch together.
Then try and do that every game.

Steady on...!


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: theakston2k on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 00:04:01
I think we’ll end up 3-5-2 with wingbacks again at some point... Odimayo, Grounds & Fryers or something like that to get some extra security down the middle as some times players are able to walk through the centre of our defence. We obviously got to the play off final in this league playing that formation so know it can work.

That said a lot of the goals we concede are just absolute fuck ups that systems and formations have no relevance to like the 3rd Plymouth goal tonight.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 01:41:25
Doesn’t matter what formation is played, the problem is individual mistakes which would still be made.

Cant for the life of me remember the last time we had a competent defence.



Title: Re: The defence
Post by: DV Canio on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 07:15:06
Doesn’t matter what formation is played, the problem is individual mistakes which would still be made.

Cant for the life of me remember the last time we had a competent defence.



Under Di Canio, naturally


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Flashheart on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 07:17:15
Training.

Professional footballers don't make mistakes like the ones we're seeing, or at least they shouldn't be. Grounds has a ton of experience at a higher level. It's not a problem with ability.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 09:19:12
Breaking last nights goals down:

1. Goalkeeper error: Too slow to come out and punch. Or stay on your line and save the header.

2. Grounds and Donahue fannying around with it on the left with Plymouth players swarming around them. If in doubt, kick it out! (Don't chest it down, play a slow short pass thats intercepted and let the winger rock by you)

3. Grounds trying to be too cute. Takes too long on the ball. Gifts the light challenge.

4. Worldy.

Bottom line is they take too many chances at the back. Its the style of play. If you dwell on the ball when teams are pressing you quickly, the law of averages states that you will eventually make a mistake. Many of Baudry's mistakes are down to this, but he has the added bonus of tuning out every now and again and getting caught out of position and ball watching. Grounds mistakes yesterday were because he dwelt on the ball.

Its not helped by having a dodgy keeper.  He's good with the ball at his feet and can pick a pass. Last night he made more saves than I've seen all season - A significant improvement. But, his positioning is still off, his judgement and speed off the line is random. I dont have a lot of confidence in him and I assume the defence don't either.

Do we have anything better? I don't know.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Bob's Orange on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 09:36:16
Clearly we need to sign Sid Nelson and Jamie Sendles-White to sort out this mess!


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Bogus Dave on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 09:45:13
The back four and keeper need to make fewer individual errors, but I think generally the midfield 2-3 aren’t good enough at offering protection to those behind them


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: TheDukeOfBanbury on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 12:18:15
The solution is getting Zeki Fryers and Dion Conroy fit, and quickly.

Fryers almost fit and Conroy now running.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 12:22:26
Breaking last nights goals down:

1. Goalkeeper error: Too slow to come out and punch. Or stay on your line and save the header.

2. Grounds and Donahue fannying around with it on the left with Plymouth players swarming around them. If in doubt, kick it out! (Don't chest it down, play a slow short pass thats intercepted and let the winger rock by you)

3. Grounds trying to be too cute. Takes too long on the ball. Gifts the light challenge.

4. Worldy.

Bottom line is they take too many chances at the back. Its the style of play. If you dwell on the ball when teams are pressing you quickly, the law of averages states that you will eventually make a mistake. Many of Baudry's mistakes are down to this, but he has the added bonus of tuning out every now and again and getting caught out of position and ball watching. Grounds mistakes yesterday were because he dwelt on the ball.

Its not helped by having a dodgy keeper.  He's good with the ball at his feet and can pick a pass. Last night he made more saves than I've seen all season - A significant improvement. But, his positioning is still off, his judgement and speed off the line is random. I dont have a lot of confidence in him and I assume the defence don't either.

Do we have anything better? I don't know.

It would be worth giving Fryers a game, albeit I fear we may be tied into Kovar having to play as a requisite of his loan?


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Riddick on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 12:26:29
The one game Fryer played he looked even worse IMO. Couldnt kick for shit either.

Fryer only contracted to Jan. They need to look for an experienced keeper to come in.

Also its not just the defense, Grounds got caught yesterday because there was no pass for him. Sure he should have done better regardless. Midfield though is somewhere we need to look at. Been said many times but for these games we would normally play a 3rd midfielder instead of Payne. Need Lyden back asap and preferably another body in as well.

Grant did okay yesterday but gave the ball away a lot.

On the plus side i think Donohue and Caddis are both class. I suspect now are best back 4 has Fryers and Odimayo as the central two.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Power to people on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 12:26:55
The full backs are capable of playing the ball out but are the centre backs or the keeper ? I'd suggest they are not the greatest at the moment the ethos has been to pass pass pass, maybe we need to go back to basics clear it up and let the midfield chase the ball, then the defenders dont need to worry about having to hoof it and getting rollocked.

The keeper is awful, sadly there is probably a fair wedge to pay if he does not play hence why the other lad hasn't been given a fair chance to prove he is any better.

But not having our own keeper doesn't help, and a decent No 2 that can push to be No 1, suspect this may have been a panic move sadly.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: jutty274 on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 16:14:47
I think that when he is fit Broadbent should be brought back in, he is a solid no frills defender that wins headers, tackles and blocks but if a short easy pass isn't on he just clears it as far as he can, sometimes that is what is needed.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: JoeMezz on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 16:35:20
I think that when he is fit Broadbent should be brought back in, he is a solid no frills defender that wins headers, tackles and blocks but if a short easy pass isn't on he just clears it as far as he can, sometimes that is what is needed.


Agree. He single-handedly won us points away at Northampton and home to Mansfield (and maybe Walsall too). We need defenders who can defend first and foremost.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Batch on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 17:12:52
Broadbent is going to be miles off fitness, unless his injury was an 'injury' of course


Title: Re: Re: The defence
Post by: horlock07 on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 17:31:33
Broadbent is going to be miles off fitness, unless his injury was an 'injury' of course
Who knows his podcast suggests Wellens treated him pretty shodilly.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Nomoreheroes on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 17:53:34
I think that when he is fit Broadbent should be brought back in, he is a solid no frills defender that wins headers, tackles and blocks but if a short easy pass isn't on he just clears it as far as he can, sometimes that is what is needed.

I would have someone like Aiden Flint in the team all day long. Useless with the ball at his feet, but awesome in the air at both ends of the pitch.

But, I didn't see the games that Broadbent played, but I got the feeling from listening to commentary and comments during the game, that he wasn't really that good. Have I missed something here?

I think (as I've said a couple of times):
- I like Donahue on the left. He is my first choice LB
- Grounds. I like him. I think he has been a good signing. He made 2 mistakes yesterday where he was trying to be too cute. Rest of the time (other than giving away a penalty - forward dived after he slid in) he has been solid.
- Odimayo. I think he has done pretty well. Looked poor at first, but has grown in statue. Think he works well with Grounds
- Caddis. He is my first choice RB. I like him going forward. He is prone to the odd mistake, but he is still my first choice RB.

Conroy - I don't know what he will be like coming back a second time. Wasn't convinced about him in L1 before.
Baudry - I don't rate him. Not a L1 player. Makes too many mistakes.
Broadbent - Hmmm. Not sure Bristol Rovers would have got rid of him if he were a L1 player.
Fryers - Has pace. Has injuries. Not sure he would work that well with Odimayo. Not sure if he makes the LB position over Donahue.

Donahue, Grounds, Odimayo & Caddis need a solid goalkeeper behind them who can recover the situation when they make the odd mistake. Kovar is not good enough to work with this defence. I doubt Fryer is either. Neither look any better that Archie Matthews in pre-season - And he clearly isnt ready. There are lots of OOC GKs around.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: RobertT on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 18:03:25
I think the defence looks better with a Benda in goal, that is for sure.  Kovar has not shown enough as yet.  He may grow, because I doubt he has played very many games in anything like the environment he finds himself in with league football before.

Beyond that, it's concentration.  The ability is there, they are not functioning fully for the entire game - be that because of their personal circumstances in a Covid era, be that their personal reaction to the odd environment of playing in stadiums without fans (much more different than even small grounds/open fields) or be that because our training has been shit, who knows.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 19:41:29
Doesn't this recent tweet from ex Town GK Coach Steve Hale sum up the Kovar situation perfectly?


https://twitter.com/SteveHaleGK/status/1320349439429660672?s=09


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: theakston2k on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 20:29:13
Agree. He single-handedly won us points away at Northampton and home to Mansfield (and maybe Walsall too). We need defenders who can defend first and foremost.
What are you on about he didn’t even play against Walsall and put in the worst performance I’ve ever seen from a defender against Colchester at home last season. He’s not that good hence he’s only played 50 league games in his career at 28 and Rovers let us have him and also as others have said he’ll be miles off match fitness. Having a ‘no nonsense’ defender who just smashes it away all game will be as useful as a chocolate teapot as we’ve got no strength up front to hold up the ball so it will just surrender possession. Broadbent certainly isn’t the answer to anything.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: pauld on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 22:18:08
I think the defence looks better with a Benda in goal, that is for sure.  Kovar has not shown enough as yet.  He may grow, because I doubt he has played very many games in anything like the environment he finds himself in with league football before.

Beyond that, it's concentration.  The ability is there, they are not functioning fully for the entire game - be that because of their personal circumstances in a Covid era, be that their personal reaction to the odd environment of playing in stadiums without fans (much more different than even small grounds/open fields) or be that because our training has been shit, who knows.
Worth remembering as well that Benda had several months training with the team etc before he started playing whereas Kovar was thrown into matches from the off. Don't get me wrong, Benda is a better keeper IMO but it may well have been that he may also have started more shakily if he'd been thrown in from the outset. Kovar is doing a lot of his learning and acclimitisation here in public, Benda got to do it away from critical gazes.


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: Oaksey Moonraker on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 22:41:10
Benda also had Luke McCormick to work with as the other goalkeeper who is vastly experienced and gave a lot of guidance. I know Mildy was the coach last season and this but it can be subtle differences and timing that can make a bigger difference


Title: Re: The defence
Post by: bamboonoclue on Wednesday, November 4, 2020, 23:08:28
I'm lolling at what a cunt RW actually is. When questioned recently about whether we were looking at a CB like Sid Nelson (yes I know but this isn't the point), the prick stated;

'we are looking forward not backwards.'

Well that comment didn't age well did matey?! You got in a bunch of lads who can pass it at the back but can't actually defend consistently. What a hypocritical cunt though. Love the irony that after all the talk of going forward, he's the one who has taken a step back.

I know several Manc people and whilst they are great people, they are gobbyfuckers. Remember my St.Helens dwelling mate saying once...

'errrrr Mancs?! All a bunch a gobshites.' But he's Mersey Red in this life and beyond but his assessments are usually knob on.